UK to leave EU

[Homeless Nutter]

To be fair, Islamophobia is a bullshit term, people should be suspicious of muslim immigrants, and there's nothing wrong with that given the facts as they are. That may in fact be the one thing that redempts this political decision in spite of its economical difficulties. I would honestly feel more safe moving to Britain right now than in many other parts of Europe because of it, although, ironically, Brexit might make it more difficult for me to do so right now, I suppose(not that I was planning on it anyway).

You do realize, that the closed border thing is not going to happen for years - perhaps never, depending on the agreement reached between UK and EU, right? Or that more than half of immigration into the UK is from outside the EU? Paradoxically Brexit could mean more muslim immigrants, especially if France makes good on the promise of kicking British border control out of Callais and letting the refugees camp out on the other side of the channel. Not to mention, that there's also most likely not going to be a militarized border between Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland.

Yes - the xenophobes greatly helped to pass the "Leave" vote, but they likely will be disappointed.

[Excited Penguin]

To be fair, Islamophobia is a bullshit term, people should be suspicious of muslim immigrants, and there's nothing wrong with that given the facts as they are.

This statement is the living proof of Islamophobia not being a bullshit term. I be suspicious of people if they give me reason to. Not because of their place of birth, their color of skin or their religion.

Just today I had a good long talk with our maintenance guy. Young man from Pakistan, just learning german, but fluent in english. I talked to him because I was interested how he came to leave his country. Might some people do some good to do the same instead of just giving them the eye. They're people, you know. They are able to talk and they often tell a story none of us ever experienced. And thankfully so.

Notice how a religion talks about your cultural heritage, preferred thoughts and ideas and potential behaviour in a way that color of skin or place of birth couldn't. Let's not mix those up, I'm sure it's easy to do so.

Now let's break down the word Islamophobia. It means irrational fear of Islam. Is it really irrational to fear Islam more than, say, Judaism, at this point in history? It is objectively not. There is a huge problem with Islam at the moment in a way that probably all other religions combined aren't. One way or another, it needs to be dealt with before it gets completely out of hand and the proverbial regressive leftist like yourself has nothing left to do but wallow in their own complete ineffectiveness, failure and misappropriation of resources because you're more concerned with either seeking redemption for the crime of being born white in a first world country or, even more sinisterly, striving to appear to be doing something rather than actually doing something, which, of course, is a lot easier and it pays better in the short run.

As for your story there, I have no fucking clue what relevance it has to the matter at hand, unless he's muslim. In which case, I think you'd probably want to ask him if he'd wish to live in a society where you would be condemned for being an atheist. And other such questions, I'm sure you can think of them if you really want to. If he appears to sincerely answer them satisfactorily then you can tell me he's as harmless as your average Christian.

There are potentially reformist muslims, ex-muslims, and various other threatened minorities in the muslim world who actually need our help, and we are not helping them by pretending that that which makes their life hell isn't actually a problem and should be treated with the utmost delicacy. See, this, is simply the product of leading a life devoid of the violence and problems imposed by religious maniacs - your attitude towards this problem, that is. Herein lies the wonder of the regressive mind.

[abaris]

Yes - the xenophobes greatly helped to pass the "Leave" vote, but they likely will be disappointed.

In the first onslaught, they mainly targeted polish establishments, clubs and shops. But things seem to have calmed down since then. At least there are no new reports on riots against foreigners. Far as I understand it, the UK has been the favorite port of call for polish citizens wanting to leave their own country.

As for your story there, I have no fucking clue what relevance it has to the matter at hand, unless he's muslim. In which case, I think you'd probably want to ask him if he'd wish to live in a society where you would be condemned for being an atheist.

Alien as that may seem to you, I don't confront everyone I talk to. I simply talk to people and try to learn more about them. And going by your posts on different matters, this really seem to be an alien concept to you.

[Jackalope]

I suppose that I too have not lost any money, despite my accounts being 5 digits lighter in USD than they were last Thursday - no currency exchange required.

If it's any consolation, I envy you for still being able to lose money. I lost that ability in the last global fuckup I didn't have any say in.

I feel for you. Do you have a decent national pension program in Austria?

I diversified into holding bonds as well as equities as a hedge against this sort of thing prior to the 2008 debacle - after learning a very expensive lesson in 2000. I still lost money in 2008, but not nearly as much as those who didn't diversify.

My rural home is still down to about 80% of what it was in 2007, despite the fact that there's a shortage of housing in my area. Sadly, the recovery in rural property hasn't been as vigorous as it has in urban areas.

[Excited Penguin]

To be fair, Islamophobia is a bullshit term, people should be suspicious of muslim immigrants, and there's nothing wrong with that given the facts as they are.

Seriously? What facts are they?

Terrorists do not make up even a significant proportion of the Muslim population, and even if they did, the rush of immigrants from Muslim countries is due to terrorists destabilizing those countries in the first place. In other words, the vast majority of Muslim immigrants are going to Europe to escape terrorism.

Poll results concerning what vast numbers of muslims believe about what kind of society they want to live in. Islam inspired violence and oppression that is documented thoroughly enough that you shouldn't have to pretend you don't know "what the facts are".

Unfortunately, the fact that most of them aren't terrorists doesn't escape the fact that their massive immigration makes it easier for actual terrorists to infiltrate European society. That's not even to talk about the number of non-terrorists that are simply not ready to join a more civilized world, both because of their beliefs and their practices.


I'm not going to #NotAllMuslims, that should be obvious for any person who's concerned with the truth here, not with posturing.

[Excited Penguin]

Yes - the xenophobes greatly helped to pass the "Leave" vote, but they likely will be disappointed.

In the first onslaught, they mainly targeted polish establishments, clubs and shops. But things seem to have calmed down since then. At least there are no new reports on riots against foreigners. Far as I understand it, the UK has been the favorite port of call for polish citizens wanting to leave their own country.

As for your story there, I have no fucking clue what relevance it has to the matter at hand, unless he's muslim. In which case, I think you'd probably want to ask him if he'd wish to live in a society where you would be condemned for being an atheist.

Alien as that may seem to you, I don't confront everyone I talk to. I simply talk to people and try to learn more about them. And going by your posts on different matters, this really seem to be an alien concept to you.

Nor should you, I was just making my point. Which, I take it, you took, since you chose to deflect.

[abaris]

I feel for you.  Do you have a decent national pension program in Austria?

Not better or worse than in most EU countries. Probably just enough to get some food and a roof over my head. They calculate it, using the best earning ten years of your life. Which would be nice, but the caveat is, that you have to have an employment record of 40 years to reach that. Which, going by my broken record during the last half decade, is hard to achieve. Even more so, since I finished university at 26. I've worked before that, but these were just jobs to keep me afloat. Nothing to really add to the record.

[abaris]

Nor should you, I was just making my point. Which, I take it, you took, since you chose to deflect.

Why? You simply asked me, if he's a muslim. Yes, he is. Guess why he left. Because of the Taliban and extremism. Now, excuse, if I didn't rub into his face that his religion is bullshit. That may be the difference between us. Mght also be the reason, why you are using the broad brush. Since you don't feel the need to talk. You just look at the brown skinned guy and are suspicious of him. As you were explicitly saying. The "brown" is my addition, but otherwise, you have to have some way of distinguishing who's muslim and who's deserving of your suspicion based on that.

[Excited Penguin]

Nor should you, I was just making my point. Which, I take it, you took, since you chose to deflect.

Why? You simply asked me, if he's a muslim. Yes, he is. Guess why he left. Because of the Taliban and extremism. Now, excuse, if I didn't rub into his face that his religion is bullshit. That may be the difference between us. Mght also be the reason, why you are using the broad brush. Since you don't feel the need to talk. You just look at the brown skinned guy and are suspicious of him. As you were explicitly saying. The "brown" is my addition, but otherwise, you have to have some way of distinguishing who's muslim and who's deserving of your suspicion based on that.

Yes, I have just such a tool of distinguishing, and I believe I already alluded to it. Conversation. The first and last resort of civility. You, on the other hand, are the one who is prejudiced here, oh so ironically. You are also deliberately misinterpreting what I said, although, of course, subtly enough that you can deny it once it's pointed out. - I never said you should talk the finer points of theology with him, simply find out if he has any Islamist tendencies before you make up your mind about him. Despite how this suggestion evidently makes you think I'm advising you to alienate every possible brown-skinned immigrant who might conceivably be muslim that you come across of, by asking inappropriate questions, I'll remind you that you're the one that made a claim about someone's character as part of an argument against having reservations at the prospect of a certain unstable religious group being assimilated by Europe, and as such, the burden is on you to either consolidate that claim or retract it. Not that it would matter much. Choosing to argue for the moral inculpability of a whole ideological group by offering the characterization of a single individual is particularly fallacious.

[The Grand Nudger]

I don't know how you'd determine, on the basis of what you'd consider islamist tendencies...in conversation....whether or not you should be suspicious of a person.

Ask the average mom with her kids at walmart in any red state whether she thinks that gods laws should be the laws of the US and she'll stare at you blankly, as if they -already were-.  She's probably not there to buy materials for a pipe bomb, regardless.  If we could figure out who to worry about by just talking to them, this whole terrorist thing would be a non-issue.  We'd have the FBI setting up polite conversation booths on every street corner, and the military firing "hey, let's talk sometime" projectiles at suspected sponsors.