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RE: Trouble dealing with family about my unbelief
May 1, 2011 at 11:07 pm
(May 1, 2011 at 2:35 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: IMO, What they're missing is your personal choice to believe what you must: Without the choice there can be no belief.
Yeah, it seems to me they are unwilling to sever the tie between their beliefs and what they think I should believe. My only sister, by contrast, is evangelical as well and never moved out of her hometown. I am, in their eyes, the prodigal son I suppose. Except, like Thomas Wolfe, I can't go home again (spiritually speaking).
(May 1, 2011 at 2:35 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: I feel sorry for them. You sound like you're a credit to them. You're a family of very nice people. I think you've reached a point where parental influence isn't going to cut it, and they haven't realized that yet.
I hope they do realize it, but I'm not sure. They are very nice people. Nice to a fault. That's why it pains me a bit to hurt them, but as I must try to get through to them, I simply can't make myself believe.
Our Daily Train blog at jeremystyron.com
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We have lingered in the chambers of the sea | By sea-girls wreathed with seaweed red and brown | Till human voices wake us, and we drown. — T.S. Eliot
"... man always has to decide for himself in the darkness, that he must want beyond what he knows. ..." — Simone de Beauvoir
"As if that blind rage had washed me clean, rid me of hope; for the first time, in that night alive with signs and stars, I opened myself to the gentle indifference of the world. Finding it so much like myself—so like a brother, really—I felt that I had been happy and that I was happy again." — Albert Camus, "The Stranger"
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RE: Trouble dealing with family about my unbelief
May 2, 2011 at 12:51 pm
(This post was last modified: May 2, 2011 at 12:53 pm by Doubting Thomas.)
I think I share a somewhat similar situation. My mother-in-law wants me to go speak to the local priest because, as she said, she's afraid of me not getting to heaven and burning in hell. I'm sure your parents are going through a similar situation. They're afraid because they think you're going to burn in hell and won't get to see them in heaven.
The valid question here is, why should we try to change our entire belief system just because some people are uncomfortable with their own? Why should I try to become Christian again because some Christians are uncomfortable with the idea of me being tortured for eternity by the god they believe in?
It's definitely not fair and is tantamount to emotional blackmail. I don't believe in a place called Hell, so why should I worry about going there? If you believe in that place, then it's your problem if you think I'm going to end up there. And apparently this god you love & worship so much is going to send me there if I don't love & worship him too. So why should I worship him? I really see it as no different from Muslim terrorists threatening to kill us if we don't all start practicing fundamentalist Islam.
I did say that I'd talk to the priest some time. Of course it's on the back burner for me, and if/when I ever do, I'm going to take a nice long list of hard but valid questions about belief in God and Christianity in particular. I told my mother-in-law not to get her hopes up that it will change me.
Christian apologetics is the art of rolling a dog turd in sugar and selling it as a donut.
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RE: Trouble dealing with family about my unbelief
May 2, 2011 at 2:25 pm
(April 30, 2011 at 4:07 pm)Minimalist Wrote: They are using emotional blackmail.
It's up to you if you want to fall for the con job. If you do, it will never end.
Amen!
(May 1, 2011 at 2:35 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Their simplistic, honest & down to earth open acceptance is to be commended
Excuse me! Believing a great lie is to be 'commended'? Why?
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RE: Trouble dealing with family about my unbelief
May 2, 2011 at 3:00 pm
(May 2, 2011 at 2:25 pm)Rokcet Scientist Wrote: Excuse me! Believing a great lie is to be 'commended'? Why? You speak from a position of supposed enlightenment yet demonstrate the opposite.
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RE: Trouble dealing with family about my unbelief
May 2, 2011 at 3:56 pm
(May 2, 2011 at 12:51 pm)Doubting Thomas Wrote: It's definitely not fair and is tantamount to emotional blackmail. I don't believe in a place called Hell, so why should I worry about going there?
Thanks for your thoughts, Thomas. Yes, it goes back to the old Pascal's wager, I suppose. My dad actually said something to this effect: "You need to think about what you're saying" (Meaning, think about the prospects of going to hell if I'm wrong.)
(May 2, 2011 at 12:51 pm)Doubting Thomas Wrote: I did say that I'd talk to the priest some time. Of course it's on the back burner for me, and if/when I ever do, I'm going to take a nice long list of hard but valid questions about belief in God and Christianity in particular. I told my mother-in-law not to get her hopes up that it will change me.
Good move on telling her not to get her hopes up. I have spoken with devout believers and my former pastor after my deconversion. Really the best they can do is recommend a book. After speaking with a former agnostic turned Christian (figure that one out), he handed me this book on apologetics to peruse. I read the whole thing and took notes.  Those Christian "thinkers" are experts at tangled and fallacious logic, that's for sure.
Our Daily Train blog at jeremystyron.com
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We have lingered in the chambers of the sea | By sea-girls wreathed with seaweed red and brown | Till human voices wake us, and we drown. — T.S. Eliot
"... man always has to decide for himself in the darkness, that he must want beyond what he knows. ..." — Simone de Beauvoir
"As if that blind rage had washed me clean, rid me of hope; for the first time, in that night alive with signs and stars, I opened myself to the gentle indifference of the world. Finding it so much like myself—so like a brother, really—I felt that I had been happy and that I was happy again." — Albert Camus, "The Stranger"
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RE: Trouble dealing with family about my unbelief
May 2, 2011 at 4:15 pm
(May 2, 2011 at 3:00 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: (May 2, 2011 at 2:25 pm)Rokcet Scientist Wrote: Excuse me! Believing a great lie is to be 'commended'? Why? You speak from a position of supposed enlightenment yet demonstrate the opposite.
No. Why do think believing the absurd is commendable?
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RE: Trouble dealing with family about my unbelief
May 2, 2011 at 4:37 pm
(This post was last modified: May 2, 2011 at 4:51 pm by Rokcet Scientist.)
(May 2, 2011 at 3:00 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: (May 2, 2011 at 2:25 pm)Rokcet Scientist Wrote: Excuse me! Believing a great lie is to be 'commended'? Why? You speak from a position of supposed enlightenment Since you're guessing that you speak from baseless assumption. I.o.w. you're biased.
Quote:yet demonstrate the opposite.
Since that is continuing a baseless assumption, you're prejudiced.
Just like all believers.
And conveniently you avoid to answer the question why believing in nonsense is to be "commended".
(May 2, 2011 at 3:56 pm)everythingafter Wrote: "think about the prospects of going to hell if I'm wrong".)
Standard FUD strategy: spreading Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. Emotional arm twisting. It made US taxpayers/voters agree to spending trillions in the past decade alone, and to give up their privacy and constitutional civic rights.
Good luck getting that toothpaste back into the tube.
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RE: Trouble dealing with family about my unbelief
May 2, 2011 at 5:10 pm
Hey Rocket - I'm more than assuming that you're talking out of your ass, unless you can prove the opposite.
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RE: Trouble dealing with family about my unbelief
May 2, 2011 at 5:19 pm
this is a touchy situation
your parents are not going to change.
this is the only life we have.
you are not going to change the world into suddenly converting to atheism.
frankly being happy > strife and turmoil
it may sound like shallow but frankly I would just fake it for them.
I am not sure how much you interact with them, but if it is only once in awhile then what is the harm in just telling them what they want to hear.
This may go against everything people here think and may seem weak but frankly we are all just ant's moving up and down our little hill, if it makes them happy to think you believe something you do not I frankly do not see the harm, unless of course you are constantly around them.
If you are around them all the time then you are kinda screwed, as I do not think you are going to convert them to atheism nor would you want to put up with the constant attempts for them to convert you to being a theist, I would just try to show them that you can be a moral person without needing faith and go from there.
Frankly trying to convert christians to atheists and vice versa is basically mental masterbation and 99% of the time serves no purpose other than liking the sound of ones own voice.
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RE: Trouble dealing with family about my unbelief
May 2, 2011 at 5:22 pm
(This post was last modified: May 2, 2011 at 5:25 pm by Rokcet Scientist.)
(May 2, 2011 at 5:10 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Hey Rocket - I'm more than assuming that you're talking out of your ass, unless you can prove the opposite.
You'll never know, my friend, because you're too chicken to stick your nose in there to find out. So you'll continue to prejudge and assume, supported by your kinky imagination. Just like all the other believers.
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