Agnostics

[Whateverist]

Come back to me when you stop being evasive.

There you go again being a condescending asshole.  Piss off.

[Excited Penguin]

There is no such thing as a mere agnostic. You can be an agnostic atheist, or an agnostic theist, and somehow I doubt bennie here, for example, is of the latter.

You either hold a belief in God or you don't. It's as simple as that. If you don't, you are an atheist by definition. That is all.

Okay, just reread this post of yours again.  At first I read it as saying agnosticism and atheism are synonymous, and I still see reason to take it that way.  But now I see you are also questioning whether one can be agnostic without also being an atheist.  But theists too can be agnostic.  That is, they can recognize they have no convincing argument for the God they so believe in.  (Personally, I respect these theists the most.)  So agnosticism is a separate thing from atheism, even though most atheists are also agnostic .. in other words, realistic about the support they have for the beliefs they hold.

How could you think I said they were synonymous when in the same post I explicitly diffentiated between atheist agnostics and theist agnostics? Just curious, how is that interpretation of what I said even possible? Walk me through your reasoning here.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I didn't declare it so, I merely expressed my belief that it is so.

I was talking about what I know, not what you believe or what you wrote.

[Excited Penguin]

I didn't declare it so, I merely expressed my belief that it is so.

I was talking about what I know, not what you believe or what you wrote.

So was I. What's your point?

[brewer]

Bunch of fence sitters. Shit or get off the pot. Hoping that there are splinters. AAAAAAAAAAhahahahaha

Obvious attempt at humor is obvious.  But agnostic atheists are no less resolved in their disbelief in gods.  Fence sitting doesn't enter into it, as you well know you old goofball.

The serious point behind the sarcasm is: Who the fuck am I (or you or anyone) to tell someone else what they are.

Now excuse me, I have to go shit.

[madog]

When they politicians look at polls to see who they need to pander too, xtians of all types state they are xtians ... it is not the case with those that don't believe/think there is a God .....

Is it surprising xtians have the most influence on the way everything is run in the USA? ...

[Thumpalumpacus]

I was talking about what I know, not what you believe or what you wrote.

So was I. What's your point?

I dunno, maybe discussion? Clarification for the sake of the reader?

If you're not responding to a point I made, I don't understand why you'd quote me, though.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Here are some god related questions and the isms to which each gives rise if the answer is no:

1. Do you believe in the existence of God/gods?  No = atheism

2. Do you know if God/gods exist?  No = agnosticism

3. Do you understand what "God"/"gods" refers to?  No = ignosticism

4. Do you care if God/gods exist?  No = apatheism


For me it is no across the board.  I believe you must answer yes to the third question in order answer the first question definitively thereby accepting the burden of proof in the bargain.  Because of my position on the third question, I feel no more able to back up the general statement that no God/gods exist than I would be to argue in favor of the existence of gods.  For that reason hard atheists come off looking as foolish gnostic theists when they try to say something definitive about gods.

Emphasis mine

See, there you go. It follows from that if you do believe in the existent of gods, you are a theist, if you don't, you're an atheist. There is no position in between. Agnostic is merely an additional description of the two.

Agnosticism describes a state of knowledge, not belief, whch is why I'm both agnostic and atheist.

[Excited Penguin]

Emphasis mine

See, there you go. It follows from that if you do believe in the existent of gods, you are a theist, if you don't, you're an atheist. There is no position in between. Agnostic is merely an additional description of the two.

Agnosticism describes a state of knowledge, not belief, whch is why I'm both agnostic and atheist.

That's not the point. 

Let me put it like this.

Let's take bennie as an example. 

Bennie, do you believe in God, answer with a yes/no, please?

If he chooses no, he's an atheist. That's all there is to it, really.

[bennyboy]

Bennie, do you believe in God, answer with a yes/no, please?

Please spell my name correctly, Exited Pancreas.

Tell me what "God" means to you, and I'll be happy to answer your question.