Is there another motivation for christian belief?

[RobertE]

Completely missed the point. He thinks I am a "new believer." And I am now thinking "why on earth was I praying for in the first place?" Sorry, but I am beginning to think that schizophrenia is in fact another name for religion (I present my excuses to those who suffer from this terrible disease.) The way I read it is this, "you should pray to god, but in reality god is not going to fucking help you", since it is false.

Damn it, Robert, you're just asking for Drich to repeat his distinction between prayer and petition. The point he misses is that he, and all believers, have it set up in their minds that anything -- including no answer at all -- is "really" an answer to a petition or prayer. Hence, it's unfalsifiable.

Damn you too Cross!!!!!   It is typical Christian behaviour to introduce a "grey area", as far as miracles are concerned.

[Athene]

I asked you a question first remember, why are you an atheist? Or has that slipped your mind? 

I don't have a belief in God(s). That is the definition of an atheist.
Therefore, I'm an atheist.

Question answered.

[Crossless2.0]

Damn it, Robert, you're just asking for Drich to repeat his distinction between prayer and petition. The point he misses is that he, and all believers, have it set up in their minds that anything -- including no answer at all -- is "really" an answer to a petition or prayer. Hence, it's unfalsifiable.

Damn you too Cross!!!!!   It is typical Christian behaviour to introduce a "grey area", as far as miracles are concerned.

Yes, it's called dishonesty. 

[Drich]

Just for you Drich and why I could never believe in a God, no matter how much I prayed at the time. This happens once every 3-4 years, then when it happens, it wakes me up automatically around 2:00am every morning for 3 months because it is linked with the circadian rythym. There is medication for it which are Triptans (injectable) or if you wish, oxygen from a tank. Either way, it has never stopped me going to work, it has never stopped me leaving work early (yes, it happens at least 2-3 times per day.) And you think I don't like the answer that your God gave me? As people, we were led to believe in praying for miracles. I tried that and it doesn't work, I still suffer so, what is the point? I am, just like many millions are living proof that praying for miracles just doesn't happen. It is about time that the religious took off their blinkers and looked at the real world, to see the suffering. Not just those who are terminally ill or suffer from serious illnesses, but those who live in poverty, who don't even have proper hygiene facilities, yet they look up to people like you who do NOT give a damn about those people as long as you are alright and taken care of. The church/synagogue/mosque or temple is simply a place for people who have the attitude of "sod you Jack, I'm alright."

...And this is why people think i am a sociopath:

Obviously, you have the mental wherewithal to formulate and defend your reasoning for disbelief in God, so then why could you not be held to the same standard I am without headaches? You expended the same mental energy to reach a place for or against God. so then why not be held to your lack of action or inaction? Does feeling sorry for yourself or pushing me to a position to feel sorry for you somehow lessen your 'moral responsibilities?' No absolutely not. You said "as a people we are lead to believe." Do you not know as an individual you are responsible for your own salvation through the atonement Christ offers? This means you being lead to believe anything is foolishness of your own doing. If your reading this you could just as easy read the bible, follow through some of the promises given and find the relief God has offered you, but again that is not what you did. You found a group of like minded people who believe God's only cure is to 'magic the bad away.' Well He didn't why? because that is not what He said do to find the relief you seek. Yet you hung your whole belief system on what like minded people think of God rather than doing your own research and finding out what God wants you to do.

Just so we are clear. You do not even understand the defination of prayer if you said you prayed for relief. That again is not prayer. we have only one example of prayer and healing of any kind is not apart of what makes a prayer. Healing is a form of petition, not prayer. Prayer is asking God to change you to use things like your headaches to better your understanding of Him and your role in life. Prayer is not to Change God's mind about your lot, it is about changing your mind to work with what you are given.

Petition is our way to ask God to change our lot in life. that is what you were doing, not praying.

So did God answer your prayer? Well, first of all you never prayed. Or rather what you listed out was not a prayer, therefore your conclusions based on what you did are based on a bad understanding of who and what God is. The only thing you proved is that your VERSION of the God of the bible does not exists.

Your fatal flaw? Pride, It's not wrong to build and hold a bad understand of God. What is not forgivable is to assume when the real God send the rains to knock down your foolish understanding that, because your first effort of trying to understand God was wrong, that no other version could possibly exist.

[FatAndFaithless]

...And this is why people think i am a sociopath:

Oh, that's not the only reason..

[Drich]

Your either confused as to the definition of unfalsfiable, or confused to the nature of the items being proven false in the statement.

The statement was proven to be 'false' we the subject said he prayed to God for a personal healing. Again the issue here is not God as the subject for falsifying, God (for the subject) was falsified in what he identified as the prayer. Therefore the subject matter, (what is being falsified) has turned to the method in which God was falsified. (The prayer.)

So first question, did the subject if fact make a prayer when asking for a healing? Answer? No. We have only one example of a Christian prayer and it does not include a provision or place to asked to be healed. therefore we can not identify what the subject did as a prayer, but a petition. The difference God has promised to always answer prayer in the affirmative, but has not promised to do anything with a petition.

We have been given direction if we seek healing from an affliction, and the subject did not follow the command given by Christ. Rather he sought to skip what the bible says do, in favor of a direct petition as it seems that as a new 'believer' he thought himself in a position to demand such a thing/Offer a trade a miracle for allegiance. This indivisual mistook what God had promised us, doesn't know the difference between a petition and prayer, tried to leverage his faith with a favorable outcome from a petition, and gives up on God because he didn't get his wishes granted.

So just in case your intelligence is getting in the way again..

God was falsified to this person in unanswered prayer.

I proved his statement to be false because his falsification process was mislabeled. He said he prayed when he did not. (even if he thought it was prayer it was only a petition which receive a negitive response almost without fail when one does not approach God on a subject that clear instructions have been given.)

  Way to completely miss the point! Do you really think I give two shiny shits about your distinctions between prayer and petition?

And like always you missed mine...

God is 'falsified' through His promises. The one of the big one Jesus Himself promised is to ALWAYS answer prayer.

Can you see where I'm going with this Mr. Double major?

If your education is still getting in the way let me explain it to you as I would a child

IF God can be falsified through prayer/His promises then all one need do is find an unanswered prayer. Which is what rob-b seeming claimed. The problem? Most of you morons revel in your own ignorance concerning prayer. So much so they/you missed the whole point for both your and my argument? In that what he did was not pray but petition God.

Feeling stoo-ped enough to stop typing yet?

[Drich]

  Way to completely miss the point! Do you really think I give two shiny shits about your distinctions between prayer and petition?

Completely missed the point. He thinks I am a "new believer." And I am now thinking "why on earth was I praying for in the first place?" Sorry, but I am beginning to think that schizophrenia is in fact another name for religion (I present my excuses to those who suffer from this terrible disease.) The way I read it is this, "you should pray to god, but in reality god is not going to fucking help you", since it is false.

Being young in the faith has nothing to do with the amount of time you spent professing it.

It has to do with spiritual matureity/what you know of the God of the bible.

For instance can you identify what constitutes a biblical prayer, or are all prayer that start out dear God (ask for whatever you want) and end with Amen somehow = a prayer to you?

If you think you can ask God for whatever you want and end with Jesus name amen, and He is obligated to give it to you you are new/young or just starting out your journey.

My identification of you through your prayer is far more accurate than you like it to be.

(here comes the pride.)

[Drich]

why? Do you fear the idea that I might be right?

You are so far wrong, it is unreal. I was a believer, but just as Christians do, so do atheists. It is called "seeing the light." All I had to do was believe in myself, not in some mystical power that is not even there. If I am in pain, I know I can overcome it, just as alcoholics overcome their addiction or drug addicts do. If religion has taught me anything, is beware of the false prophets i.e. those who make up bullshit stories to fleece the millions out of their hard-earned money.

So then what has religion taught you to do with an actual prophet?

(One who asks for nothing, and spends his life giving ALL of what has been given him?)

[Drich]

Completely missed the point. He thinks I am a "new believer." And I am now thinking "why on earth was I praying for in the first place?" Sorry, but I am beginning to think that schizophrenia is in fact another name for religion (I present my excuses to those who suffer from this terrible disease.) The way I read it is this, "you should pray to god, but in reality god is not going to fucking help you", since it is false.

Damn it, Robert, you're just asking for Drich to repeat his distinction between prayer and petition. The point he misses is that he, and all believers, have it set up in their minds that anything -- including no answer at all -- is "really" an answer to a petition or prayer. Hence, it's unfalsifiable.

ah, no..

Check a few posts up. I clearly state that ALL PRAYER MUST BE ANSWERED IN THE AFFIRMATIVE, As Per Jesus' Own Promise To Us.

Which then beggs the question what is prayer...

Answer??? You are too dumb to care, because I don't get your arguement based on what you think christians believe..

Tell you what sport when you catch up to where i am at ask me again nice and I will make a another attempt to make a clear distinction between petition and prayer.

[RobertE]

Just for you Drich and why I could never believe in a God, no matter how much I prayed at the time. This happens once every 3-4 years, then when it happens, it wakes me up automatically around 2:00am every morning for 3 months because it is linked with the circadian rythym. There is medication for it which are Triptans (injectable) or if you wish, oxygen from a tank. Either way, it has never stopped me going to work, it has never stopped me leaving work early (yes, it happens at least 2-3 times per day.) And you think I don't like the answer that your God gave me? As people, we were led to believe in praying for miracles. I tried that and it doesn't work, I still suffer so, what is the point? I am, just like many millions are living proof that praying for miracles just doesn't happen. It is about time that the religious took off their blinkers and looked at the real world, to see the suffering. Not just those who are terminally ill or suffer from serious illnesses, but those who live in poverty, who don't even have proper hygiene facilities, yet they look up to people like you who do NOT give a damn about those people as long as you are alright and taken care of. The church/synagogue/mosque or temple is simply a place for people who have the attitude of "sod you Jack, I'm alright."

...And this is why people think i am a sociopath:

Obviously, you have the mental wherewithal to formulate and defend your reasoning for disbelief in God, so then why could you not be held to the same standard I am without headaches? You expended the same mental energy to reach a place for or against God. so then why not be held to your lack of action or inaction? Does feeling sorry for yourself or pushing me to a position to feel sorry for you somehow lessen your 'moral responsibilities?' No absolutely not. You said "as a people we are lead to believe." Do you not know as an individual you are responsible for your own salvation through the atonement Christ offers? This means you being lead to believe anything is foolishness of your own doing. If your reading this you could just as easy read the bible, follow through some of the promises given and find the relief God has offered you, but again that is not what you did. You found a group of like minded people who believe God's only cure is to 'magic the bad away.' Well He didn't why? because that is not what He said do to find the relief you seek. Yet you hung your whole belief system on what like minded people think of God rather than doing your own research and finding out what God wants you to do.

Just so we are clear. You do not even understand the defination of prayer if you said you prayed for relief. That again is not prayer. we have only one example of prayer and healing of any kind is not apart of what makes a prayer. Healing is a form of petition, not prayer. Prayer is asking God to change you to use things like your headaches to better your understanding of Him and your role in life. Prayer is not to Change God's mind about your lot, it is about changing your mind to work with what you are given.

Petition is our way to ask God to change our lot in life. that is what you were doing, not praying.

So did God answer your prayer? Well, first of all you never prayed. Or rather what you listed out was not a prayer, therefore your conclusions based on what you did are based on a bad understanding of who and what God is. The only thing you proved is that your VERSION of the God of the bible does not exists.

Your fatal flaw? Pride, It's not wrong to build and hold a bad understand of God. What is not forgivable is to assume when the real God send the rains to knock down your foolish understanding that, because your first effort of trying to understand God was wrong, that no other version could possibly exist.

Let us make one thing perfectly clears shall we. I do not look for sympathy from anyone. These are my problems and I will resolve them in my own way like I have done for decades. You do realise that Cluster Headaches is the most painful thing to happen to a human being in medical science. I prayed to your god years ago and it got me nowhere. So, I looked for alternatives, but the only one that came to me was belief in myself to conquer it. As for petition or praying, what on earth are you talking about? I wanted him to cure me, not ask him for a loan to buy a house. Is that not too much to ask from when I was a believer? When you are constantly bombarded to "pray", each night so that everything comes true, only to be let down by some fictional bullshit, then I prefer to trust my own instincts and tell myself that God doesn't exist, otherwise he would have cured me. Since then, I have two conditions; Epilepsy and cluster headaches, two disabilities that will never be cured and should there happen to be a miracle for people like myself in the future, it will not be down to your God, but to Science.