Good intentions -- how much do they mean to you?

[Edwardo Piet]

[Edwardo Piet]

Hey hear me out guys, I just had an interesting thought:

Let's start with the premise that all that matters is behavior and intentions don't really matter at all. It's just about good behavior, good behavior, good behavior, and good consequences, good consequences, good consequences.

Doesn't that mean that if a person denies their true self and who they are and loses all integrity... it doesn't matter in the slightest provided that overall it improves their behavior and the consequences

TL;DR: If and only if intentions don't matter and all that matters is good behavior doesn't that imply that pretending to be someone we are not is preferable if it leads to better behavior overall?

[Joods]

Nope. Because when a person lies, yet there are people who know the truth, the liar's behavior is deceptive and therefore, untrustworthy. The liar can try all they want to live in the delisuion that they they have "x" on their side. The truth has a funny way of catching up with people no matter how one tries to "be good".

[GrandizerII]

Hey hear me out guys, I just had an interesting thought:

Let's start with the premise that all that matters is behavior and intentions don't really matter at all. It's just about good behavior, good behavior, good behavior, and good consequences, good consequences, good consequences.

Doesn't that mean that if a person denies their true self and who they are and loses all integrity... it doesn't matter in the slightest provided that overall it improves their behavior and the consequences

TL;DR: If and only if intentions don't matter and all that matters is good behavior doesn't that imply that pretending to be someone we are not is preferable if it leads to better behavior overall?

I would say "yes". The outcome is better, right? And we have to keep in mind some people just aren't typically trustworthy by nature, so if somehow they can consistently be committing overall good behavior regardless, then I wouldn't really see a problem with that. But that's the thing IRL, ain't gonna happen.

[Edwardo Piet]

Nope. Because when a person lies, yet there are  people who know the truth, the liar's behavior is deceptive and therefore, untrustworthy. The liar can try all they want to live in the delisuion that  they they have "x" on their side. The truth has a funny way of catching up with people no matter how one tries to "be good".

I don't understand how that follows from what I said. Where does the "because" come from?

Without the relevance of intentions there are no lies. Lying is intentional deception. Falsehood is not the same as lying. Being honestly mistaken is believing in a falsehood: lying is intentionally pretending to believe what one does not and speaking contrary to what one believes regardless of what the actual truth and falsehood actually is. Lying is necessarily intentional by definition.

There are lies that accidentally become true and there are falsehoods that are honestly mistaken.

That is the truth. Both factually and in all honesty.

[Edwardo Piet]

Hey hear me out guys, I just had an interesting thought:

Let's start with the premise that all that matters is behavior and intentions don't really matter at all. It's just about good behavior, good behavior, good behavior, and good consequences, good consequences, good consequences.

Doesn't that mean that if a person denies their true self and who they are and loses all integrity... it doesn't matter in the slightest provided that overall it improves their behavior and the consequences

TL;DR: If and only if intentions don't matter and all that matters is good behavior doesn't that imply that pretending to be someone we are not is preferable if it leads to better behavior overall?

I would say "yes". The outcome is better, right? And we have to keep in mind some people just aren't typically trustworthy by nature, so if somehow they can consistently be committing overall good behavior regardless, then I wouldn't really see a problem with that. But that's the thing IRL, ain't gonna happen.

Very interesting and yes in theory and in principle I would agree that behavior and the end is all that matters but the best means towards achieving that behavior is good integrity and good intentions.

No point saying "It's behavior and the final consequences that counts" if the only way to make an actual difference in getting there is through good intentions and deliberate effort.

However I would say that there is also the option of giving up.

Either have good intentions or stop one's intentions altogether when they're not following through. OBVIOUSLY bad intentions are always bad, or, pretty much, if a bad intention ever leads to good results it's pure luck and the very opposite of a moral way to go about things. Of course.

[Joods]

Then you need to re-read what I wrote and understand what I'm saying. I don't think I need to explain it further.

[Edwardo Piet]

I still don't follow the "because" and a delusion by definition cannot be a lie. A delusion is believed despite its falsehood. Lies are not believed (at least not by the liar). Lies are misinformation that is not believed intentionally deceptively expressed as information that is believed.

[*Deidre*]

It is true, that pretty much what matters most...is someone's actions. If my bf tells me he loves me, but he cheats on me...ummm....his words will mean nothing. His ''intentions'' will mean nothing. See what I mean?

[Edwardo Piet]

It's pretty hard to unintentionally sleep with someone else though. "Whoops accidentally slipped in the wrong person, sorry"