Posts: 77
Threads: 1
Joined: October 29, 2016
Reputation:
0
Atheism is irrational.
November 20, 2016 at 11:36 pm
Whatever is rational utilizes either the senses, the intellect or both.
Atheism cannot deny God by using senses. For, to deny something by the use of senses is to search the whole physical reality, just as ruling out that there's no alien is to search all that is searchable which is impossible for us humans. But God, by demonstration of His effects, shows that He is beyond physical reality. Hence, it is the more that God can't be denied by the senses.
Atheism cannot deny God by the intellect. For, whatever we can deny by the use of our intellect, must be defined, just as we deny circle things as square, for the definition of circle is different from the definition of square. But, God can't be define, because if He has definition, He can't be God, because by demonstration of His existence through His effects, He is necessarily Boundless. Hence, God can't be denied by the intellect.
Therefore, if to be rational is able to use senses and our intellect, and that God can't be denied both by the senses and intellect, then atheism is necessarily irrational.
Posts: 32991
Threads: 1412
Joined: March 15, 2013
Reputation:
152
RE: Atheism is irrational.
November 20, 2016 at 11:38 pm
We have five functional senses, none of which can provide substance for your fictional god.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter
Posts: 29638
Threads: 116
Joined: February 22, 2011
Reputation:
159
RE: Atheism is irrational.
November 20, 2016 at 11:53 pm
(November 20, 2016 at 11:36 pm)theologian Wrote: Atheism cannot deny God by the intellect. For, whatever we can deny by the use of our intellect, must be defined, just as we deny circle things as square, for the definition of circle is different from the definition of square. But, God can't be define, because if He has definition, He can't be God, because by demonstration of His existence through His effects, He is necessarily Boundless. Hence, God can't be denied by the intellect.
This sounds like Berry's paradox.
Quote:Consider the expression:
"The smallest positive integer not definable in under sixty letters."
Since there are only twenty-six letters, there are finitely many phrases of under sixty letters, and hence finitely many positive integers that are defined by phrases of under sixty letters. Since there are infinitely many positive integers, this means that there are positive integers that cannot be defined by phrases of under sixty letters. If there are positive integers that satisfy a given property, then there is a smallest positive integer that satisfies that property; therefore, there is a smallest positive integer satisfying the property "not definable in under sixty letters". This is the integer to which the above expression refers. The above expression is only fifty-seven letters long, therefore it is definable in under sixty letters, and is not the smallest positive integer not definable in under sixty letters, and is not defined by this expression. This is a paradox: there must be an integer defined by this expression, but since the expression is self-contradictory (any integer it defines is definable in under sixty letters), there cannot be any integer defined by it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berry_paradox
Posts: 23058
Threads: 26
Joined: February 2, 2010
Reputation:
106
RE: Atheism is irrational.
November 20, 2016 at 11:56 pm
(November 20, 2016 at 11:36 pm)theologian Wrote: Whatever is rational utilizes either the senses, the intellect or both.
Atheism cannot deny God by using senses. For, to deny something by the use of senses is to search the whole physical reality, just as ruling out that there's no alien is to search all that is searchable which is impossible for us humans. But God, by demonstration of His effects, shows that He is beyond physical reality. Hence, it is the more that God can't be denied by the senses.
Atheism cannot deny God by the intellect. For, whatever we can deny by the use of our intellect, must be defined, just as we deny circle things as square, for the definition of circle is different from the definition of square. But, God can't be define, because if He has definition, He can't be God, because by demonstration of His existence through His effects, He is necessarily Boundless. Hence, God can't be denied by the intellect.
Therefore, if to be rational is able to use senses and our intellect, and that God can't be denied both by the senses and intellect, then atheism is necessarily irrational.
Except, most atheists don't "deny" god(s), they simply lack both faith and evidence. The former lies inside them, but the paucity of evidence lies squarely on the shoulders of believers, of whatever stripe.
Posts: 29107
Threads: 218
Joined: August 9, 2014
Reputation:
155
RE: Atheism is irrational.
November 21, 2016 at 12:01 am
You're categorising us all as strong atheists. By default, an atheist is simply unconvinced that gods exist yet.
Why does it bother you anyway? It sounds like you feel atheists need to justify their position. Maybe you could tell me why I should care about this God character.
Posts: 25314
Threads: 239
Joined: August 26, 2010
Reputation:
156
RE: Atheism is irrational.
November 21, 2016 at 12:02 am
Atheism doesn't "deny god". It is a specialised subset of scepticism and critical thinking; the position of not automatically accepting theistic claims. Why do so many theists have trouble with such a simple concept?
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
Posts: 2658
Threads: 121
Joined: March 19, 2012
Reputation:
27
RE: Atheism is irrational.
November 21, 2016 at 12:03 am
(This post was last modified: November 21, 2016 at 12:05 am by FallentoReason.)
(November 20, 2016 at 11:36 pm)theologian Wrote: Whatever is rational utilizes either the senses, the intellect or both.
Atheism cannot deny God by using senses. For, to deny something by the use of senses is to search the whole physical reality, just as ruling out that there's no alien is to search all that is searchable which is impossible for us humans. But God, by demonstration of His effects, shows that He is beyond physical reality. Hence, it is the more that God can't be denied by the senses.
Agreed.
Quote:But, God can't be define, because if He has definition, He can't be God, because by demonstration of His existence through His effects, He is necessarily Boundless.
P1. God cannot be defined.
P2. If he could, he wouldn't be God.
C1. God is necessarily boundless.
P3. God can be defined as being boundless.
C2. God cannot be God
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" ~ Aristotle
Posts: 3145
Threads: 8
Joined: October 7, 2016
Reputation:
40
RE: Atheism is irrational.
November 21, 2016 at 12:08 am
I don't need to deny your god, Theologian. I merely have to look around, see no particularly convincing evidence, and then carry on with life as usual. Even if your god does exist, it is currently irrelevant and not worth worrying about.
Posts: 231
Threads: 1
Joined: August 26, 2016
Reputation:
9
RE: Atheism is irrational.
November 21, 2016 at 12:17 am
(This post was last modified: November 21, 2016 at 1:01 am by Primordial Bisque.)
(November 20, 2016 at 11:36 pm)theologian Wrote: Whatever is rational utilizes either the senses, the intellect or both.
Atheism cannot deny God by using senses. For, to deny something by the use of senses is to search the whole physical reality, just as ruling out that there's no alien is to search all that is searchable which is impossible for us humans. But God, by demonstration of His effects, shows that He is beyond physical reality. Hence, it is the more that God can't be denied by the senses.
Atheism cannot deny God by the intellect. For, whatever we can deny by the use of our intellect, must be defined, just as we deny circle things as square, for the definition of circle is different from the definition of square. But, God can't be define, because if He has definition, He can't be God, because by demonstration of His existence through His effects, He is necessarily Boundless. Hence, God can't be denied by the intellect.
Therefore, if to be rational is able to use senses and our intellect, and that God can't be denied both by the senses and intellect, then atheism is necessarily irrational.
If god does not have any direct definition, or exist within physical reality, then it does not have any real identity and is equivalent to absolutely nothing. It is a vague concept, contingent upon natural reality in order for you to imagine it exists. It's a null-entity, unnecessary, and grows increasingly useless as we discover, learn, and understand our universe.
The next time you want to preach about rationality, try to ease up on the mumbo-jumbo. It hurts your case.
“Life is like a grapefruit. Well, it's sort of orangey-yellow and dimpled on the outside, wet and squidgy in the middle. It's got pips inside, too. Oh, and some people have half a one for breakfast.” - Ford Prefect
Posts: 18510
Threads: 129
Joined: January 19, 2014
Reputation:
91
RE: Atheism is irrational.
November 21, 2016 at 12:32 am
(This post was last modified: November 21, 2016 at 12:33 am by Alex K.)
Ainvisibleleprachaunism is irrational. Ainvisibleleprachaunists cannot deny the invisible Leprachaun using their senses.
And so on and so forth...
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
|