Posts: 25314
Threads: 239
Joined: August 26, 2010
Reputation:
156
RE: My honest reason for disliking the idea of God
November 26, 2016 at 11:41 am
(November 25, 2016 at 11:48 am)purplepurpose Wrote: You gotta give props to believers like, Joker, for cultivating/embracing such depressing or painful mood of "If I live like a selfish whoremonger, then most certainly I will suffer for such bad behavior in afterlife".
If that were all there is to it, if they kept their piety private, I would have no problem with it. They're fully entitled to their beliefs; it's their insistence that we're entitled to their beliefs that I take exception to. Not to mention the condescending superiority that seems to be part of the package.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
Posts: 29107
Threads: 218
Joined: August 9, 2014
Reputation:
155
RE: My honest reason for disliking the idea of God
November 26, 2016 at 11:49 am
(November 26, 2016 at 11:32 am)purplepurpose Wrote: (November 26, 2016 at 5:25 am)robvalue Wrote: Sure, put in an actual evil entity in place of God and it comes out as "good", because we have no subjective basis by which to judge it. I think, so many people try to embrace God, even if he is described as a personification of brutality in world religions, because atheism offers eternal dream without dreams idea. And if someone asks "Why do you doubt atheism?" Because there is agnosticism.
Err... what? Atheism doesn't offer anything.
Posts: 2501
Threads: 158
Joined: April 19, 2013
Reputation:
19
RE: My honest reason for disliking the idea of God
November 26, 2016 at 11:52 am
(This post was last modified: November 26, 2016 at 11:52 am by purplepurpose.)
(November 26, 2016 at 11:49 am)robvalue Wrote: (November 26, 2016 at 11:32 am)purplepurpose Wrote: I think, so many people try to embrace God, even if he is described as a personification of brutality in world religions, because atheism offers eternal dream without dreams idea. And if someone asks "Why do you doubt atheism?" Because there is agnosticism.
Err... what? Atheism doesn't offer anything.
Its offers an opinion on worldview "If science doesn't prove the existence of God, then he most certainly He doesn't exist".
Posts: 29107
Threads: 218
Joined: August 9, 2014
Reputation:
155
RE: My honest reason for disliking the idea of God
November 26, 2016 at 11:57 am
(This post was last modified: November 26, 2016 at 11:57 am by robvalue.)
Nope. Incorrect.
Atheism is the lack of belief in gods, that's it. Not necessarily the belief that there is no gods, but it can be. Everything else is you projecting. No science, no certainty.
Posts: 2501
Threads: 158
Joined: April 19, 2013
Reputation:
19
RE: My honest reason for disliking the idea of God
November 26, 2016 at 12:15 pm
(November 26, 2016 at 11:57 am)robvalue Wrote: Nope. Incorrect.
Atheism is the lack of belief in gods, that's it. Not necessarily the belief that there is no gods, but it can be. Everything else is you projecting. No science, no certainty.
Can you explain how "Atheism is the lack of belief in gods" and "Not necessarily the belief that there is no gods" are different? Aren't they the same thing? Sorry for bothering, I just don't get it.
Posts: 25314
Threads: 239
Joined: August 26, 2010
Reputation:
156
RE: My honest reason for disliking the idea of God
November 26, 2016 at 12:53 pm
There is a jar filled with coins. If I say there are an odd number of coins, and you don't believe me, are you asserting that there must be an even number of coins?
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
Posts: 29107
Threads: 218
Joined: August 9, 2014
Reputation:
155
RE: My honest reason for disliking the idea of God
November 26, 2016 at 12:56 pm
(This post was last modified: November 26, 2016 at 1:00 pm by robvalue.)
Sure. No, they aren't the same thing.
There are three distinct positions. You can either believe there are gods, believe there aren't gods, or you can have no belief either way. Someone who is undecided, who is reserving judgement until further evidence arrives, is the latter. That is weak atheism. A lot of people incorrectly call that agnosticism. The positive belief that there are no gods is strong atheism. (These are somewhat informal terms to distinguish the two.)
Say you are in the jury, and the claim is that the defendant did a certain crime. You review the evidence and decide it's not strong enough to conclude that they did it. You lack belief that they are guilty, based on that evidence. Does this mean you believe they are innocent? Not necessarily. You may do, if there is actually evidence that suggests they are indeed innocent. Being found "not guilty" isn't the same as being found "innocent".
There is no compulsion to choose "true" or "false" when presented with a claim. If the evidence isn't there to decide, then "undecided" is the most rational position.
Posts: 7140
Threads: 12
Joined: March 14, 2013
Reputation:
72
RE: My honest reason for disliking the idea of God
November 26, 2016 at 12:56 pm
(November 26, 2016 at 11:52 am)purplepurpose Wrote: Its offers an opinion on worldview "If science doesn't prove the existence of God, then he most certainly He doesn't exist".
That's not an opinion, it's just a statement. And it's wrong. Science is not tasked with proving or disproving god, it is a way of learning how the world and universe around us work. The fact that hundreds of years of discovery and research have not turned up a scrap of evidence for god gives us cause to doubt that any such thing is out there, but that's not the goal of scientific inquiry. People may choose to believe because the idea of an afterlife is desirable --especially when it is so poorly developed that we can easily decide what it is-- but I don't think that they would choose a brutal god over atheism. They simply refuse to believe that a god who acts as brutally as Yahweh will treat them in such a manner. When presented with the dichotomy of a bloodthirsty tyrant who nonetheless personifies love, they dismiss the part they don't like. Sure --they reason-- god acted in a brutal and terrifying manner in the OT, but he's much nicer these days! You know, the eternal and unchanging Yahweh...
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
Posts: 29107
Threads: 218
Joined: August 9, 2014
Reputation:
155
RE: My honest reason for disliking the idea of God
November 26, 2016 at 1:01 pm
(This post was last modified: November 26, 2016 at 1:02 pm by robvalue.)
Also, anyone who follows the scientific method is unlikely to use such terms as "certain". Science demonstrates things beyond reasonable doubt, nothing more.
Science can't even comment on "God" until a coherent, falsifiable definition is put forward.
Posts: 2501
Threads: 158
Joined: April 19, 2013
Reputation:
19
RE: My honest reason for disliking the idea of God
November 26, 2016 at 1:06 pm
(November 26, 2016 at 12:56 pm)robvalue Wrote: Sure. No, they aren't the same thing.
There are three distinct positions. You can either believe there are gods, believe there aren't gods, or you can have no belief either way. Someone who is undecided, who is reserving judgement until further evidence arrives, is the latter. That is weak atheism. A lot of people incorrectly call that agnosticism. The positive belief that there are no gods is strong atheism. (These are somewhat informal terms to distinguish the two.)
Say you are in the jury, and the claim is that the defendant did a certain crime. You review the evidence and decide it's not strong enough to conclude that they did it. You lack belief that they are guilty, based on that evidence. Does this mean you believe they are innocent? Not necessarily. You may do, if there is actually evidence that suggests they are indeed innocent. Being found "not guilty" isn't the same as being found "innocent".
There is no compulsion to choose "true" or "false" when presented with a claim. If the evidence isn't there to decide, then "undecided" is the most rational position.
What about "innocent until proven guilty"?
|
