Atheists, tell me, a Roman Catholic: why should I become an atheist?

[Cecelia]

I can't tell you why you should become an atheist. If you want to become one, then you probably should. I mean it's not worth lying to yourself over.

The best I can do is tell you that if you're looking for answers--and I mean truly looking, not just 'exploring' atheism so you can say you did it, and that you beat it like most Christians do--I strongly suggest taking a look at the bible as if it weren't written or inspired by god. Replace 'god' with 'A shepherd named Kevin' and replace 'Jesus' with 'Frank', and ask yourself if the morality that Kevin and Frank present is a morality you're not just comfortable with, but makes you feel like Frank and Kevin are people you could really trust (minus the god claims).

If you're comfortable with Kevin and Frank's morality, then you should probably remain a Christian. Basically, you have to ask yourself if the bible lacked all divine influence and lacked any creator--if it's something you'd want to live your life by. You kind of have to treat it like a cult, and then ask yourself it the cult leaders are truly 'good'.

Personally, I couldn't. I mean I know a lot of Christians will advise against this. They'll say God is special. But if he's truly good, shouldn't you see him as good even if he isn't God? It's an excuse. "You can't judge god by man's standards!" All that really means is that this 'god' was no different than if a shepherd named Frank wrote the old testament.

[Asmodee]

Yeah, I have a JW friend try to convert me every month or two and he has often given me the "It was a different time" BS explanation.

Ugh, don't remind me... I was raised a JW.

My response to the notion that God allowed cultural identities to keep him from acting is to point out that there were plenty of times when God took decisive and brutal action for all kinds of reasons.  He struck down a man whose only crime was to try and steady the ark of the covenant when the oxen carrying it stumbled.  He slaughtered 70,000 Israelites because their king took a census.  He wiped out 99.99% of all life on the planet because he was angry with how they were behaving.

But slavery?  Equality for women?  Newp.  I guess that --for a person whose method of dealing with things was usually to kill first and ask questions later-- he simply lacked the quality of nuance.

First of all, my condolences.  My parents returned to their old Pentecostal church when I was a teen, so I feel your pain.

Second, that Ark story is one of my favorite examples!  I've never seen anyone else bring it up before.  EVERYONE in the story was doing something wrong but God chose to kill ONLY the guy who tried to stop the Ark from physically falling onto the ground.  Everyone else got a pass.  Just the guy who cared enough to try to save it was slaughtered.

And yeah, I wasn't buying that explanation either, especially from people who believe God's law is absolute...except when it's not, apparently.

[Brian37]

John Lennon was a very empathetic individual, but no, sorry that is not a good reason to reject a god claim. That would only demonstrate the hypocrisy of religion claiming to be about peace when he really did. That is still an emotional appeal, all be it a good one advocating natural morality and empathy and not superstition.

No, the core reason to accept or reject any claim is evidence.  Knowing that other mammals show empathy for partners and family and young, points to where morality is really coming from, evolution. Since evolution is proven fact, while John Lennon DOES represent the good side of our species, evolution is still a much better reason to reject god claims. So is the age of the planet, sun, galaxy and universe.

To postulate a magic sky hero as being the factory boss of a 13.8 billion year old universe, as to which we are a mere blip in time in a vast universe mostly hostile to life, to me is absurd. It makes much more sense to me to know humans love a comforting lie which is easier to accept than our finite reality.

"Imagine" is a great song though, it does convey the best in our species when we favor empathy over tribalism.

It was good enough for me at 13. I did not think then or now to ask you or anyone else what they thought.

Way to miss the point. I like him too, I like that song too, but that still is not the core reason anyone should reject a god claim. Lack of evidence is.

[Pat Mustard]

That's because you've neither read the bible nor listened to your religious leaders. Tell me again why the seniormost position for a woman within the rcc is flower arranger?

Both statements are false, sir.

No they are not. I live in a country where until 1974 a married woman was legally her husband's non-wasting chattel, ie with the same legal status as the dining table, because it was based on catholic theology which hasn't changed since then.

Regarding women's power within the church, how many women were part of the conclave which settled definitively the church's position on the family and women's reproductive rights? 0, yes that's right not one woman involved. Face facts c_l you're part of a church that considers you a thing, or at best a slave.

[Catholic_Lady]

Both statements are false, sir.

No they are not. I live in a country where until 1974 a married woman was legally her husband's non-wasting chattel, ie with the same legal status as the dining table, because it was based on catholic theology which hasn't changed since then.

Regarding women's power within the church, how many women were part of the conclave which settled definitively the church's position on the family and women's reproductive rights? 0, yes that's right not one woman involved. Face facts c_l you're part of a church that considers you a thing, or at best a slave.

Then I'd say that sounds like a cultural thing more than any sort of official Church teaching. If you are saying Catholic theology teaches that women are objects, the burden is on you to show the Catechism verse that states such. 

Your comment was that women's senior most position in the Church is a flower arranger. Yes, that comment is 100% false. 
But anyway, as far as reproductive rights go - our teaching on abortion is based on our teaching concerning human dignity and the belief that it is immoral to take away innocent human life. It is not based on a belief that women are objects. Ironically enough, it is a fundamental belief that every human being has inherent and equal dignity, regardless of anything. Including age and gender.  

Also ironically enough, my aunt's pro life stance, which stemmed from her Catholicism, is what saved my sister when she was in my teenage mom's womb. Because SHE, a woman, was/is not an object or a "thing." But a human being who deserves to stay alive.

[brewer]

---

On another note, over the past few days I've noticed I've been seeing the number 66 a lot more lately (I actually made a post about this on the Catholic Forum and it actually turned out to be my 66th post there, ironically).

I feel like a logical answer would be that I noticed the number once a few days back, and my mind started becoming fixated on the chance that it could be a sign from God...and now my mind is making more note of it when I see it than usual. Is this what you guys would think?

If you're going to fixate on numbers try 69. Seems to have more potential.

[Cyberman]

It's always been a number I like to have on the tip of my tongue, that's for sure.

[brewer]

It's why Miss Piggy can never count to 70.

[Mystical]

OP

I put together a few links you may find relevant. 

The first has a list of all the transitional fossils. I'd do a search for Tiktaalic, it's the transition from fish to land animal. Oh and if you want a modern day transition? Look up Skinks! they're migrating into the mountains and can both lay eggs aNd give live birth! 

Te rest of the links are just to cknversations here at AF past that might be relevant to your studies on cosmological event, etc.

Cheers!


http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/
(

http://atheistforums.org/thread-44724-po...and+effect


http://atheistforums.org/thread-36611.ht...and+effect

Fine tuning
http://atheistforums.org/thread-45868-po...smological

[vorlon13]

1 Timothy 2:12King James Version (KJV)

12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.


And that's from Paul. And he is hewing to the Word as given in the Old Testament. Believers not willing to comport themselves accordingly need to look into some other belief system besides Christianity.

I'm getting sick with all the apostasy and heresy being vomited forth in our forum.