Prayer

[robvalue]

Can I say I'll play GTA for an hour for you? Or talk to the toaster? Or tickle a spider?

[Catholic_Lady]

I can understand being irritated at people for praying *in place of* actively helping if they can. Everyone should be irritated by that - Christians and non Christians alike.

But it seemed like the OP and several posts after that, didnt the make that specification.

[Cyberman]

I say that to someone only when I know they are Christian. But of course, if there is anything I can do for them, I do that as well. The 2 don't have to be mutually exclussive.

Either the praying is sufficient to obviate or alleviate the situation, meaning you have faith in its power; or the practical help is required, indicating that on some level you don't. If I'm starving on the streets and you offer me food, that's plenty to get me through at least the moment. Saying you'll pray for me is only going to make you feel better about my situation, and quite frankly that's pretty selfish.

(Note that the 'you' in the above is a generic believer, not necessarily indicative of present company.)

[Catholic_Lady]

If we think both are beneficial to the person, I don't see the problem or selfishness in doing both.

[vorlon13]

Oh, Stimbo!

I'll pray to (Satan) for you !

[robvalue]

There's also really no need to tell anyone you're going to pray for them. I suppose if you know they believe in it, you could. But it still seems to be aimed at making the person saying it feel better about themselves. I do understand the social pressure to say something, when presented with someone in a horrible situation.

I mean, if someone wants to go home and pray for me, of course I wouldn't object. But I really don't need to know about it. It's not a big deal though. I wouldn't think badly of someone for saying it or make a fuss. I understand it's meant to generally be a nice sentiment.

"I'm going to beg God to stop being such a cunt for five minutes."

"Cheers mate."

[Catholic_Lady]

I think maybe it's best we stop assuming that people who offer prayers are doing so out of selfishness to make themselves feel better. It hasn't been my experience, and is really just not very charitable to assume that about people.

[vorlon13]

If god really does shower me with silver dimes or less cancer as a result of a prayer somewhere from somebody, sure. But unless the prayerful penitent gets direct confirmation the request went up through the org chart and got signed off in triplicate, see where we're at ?

[Cyberman]

If we think both are beneficial to the person, I don't see the problem or selfishness in doing both.

I know you don't; and without trying to sound condescending, that's the point.

If you truly believed that praying for a starving person is beneficial, you wouldn't offer food or some other assistance. By making their situation all about your feelings, that's selfish.

I'm not just talking rhetorically here. Back in the day, my Sam and I tried very, very hard for a baby. When we went for IVF treatment, we had people telling us how they would be praying for a successful outcome. Later, when the first round of treatment didn't take, those exact same people told us how they would pray for us again, for our peace of mind etc. Yes, they undoubtedly had the best of intentions, and there wasn't anything they could provide in practical terms; but by deciding to pray for us and making it perfectly clear to us that they were going to do so, they turned the conversation into being about them and how selfless they were.

And no, I'm not in the least bitter about this experience nor turning it into some hard-hearted crusade; so if anyone was thinking of going that route, please don't.

[Catholic_Lady]

I don't think you understand how our beliefs work.

We don't believe in a God who is a wizard with a magic wand and who will make food appear out of thin air for the poor people we pray for. That's not really how it works. When we "pray for the poor," our hope is not for something supernatural, but for them to be granted some emotional strength to get through tough times... or for some sort of difference in the hearts of the people around them. For a walker-by to feel empathy and give food or offer a job, for example. Or for the poor person to find emotional peace while battling through.

...things like that.

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I have asked for people to pray for me before, because I'm a Christian and it brings me comfort to know that ppl are praying for me. Likewise, I let ppl know when I pray for them bc I want to give them the same comfort I get when others pray for me. No selfishness.