Tooth Fairy Bullshit

[Jesster]

Wow no. I really don't see it as a reasonable thing to be offended by. I admit that they have every right to be offended, but their offense is on their end and not mine. Until they convince me that it is actually offensive, I am not going to lie or withhold my thoughts on this just to make them feel better.

Beliefs change. They are not a part of you. They are a product of the world around you. Instead of just getting flustered, it's much more productive to use reasoning to tell me why God and the Tooth Fairy shouldn't be compared. So far I'm not convinced by any of the arguments, so my mind has not been changed. I'm not sorry we don't agree.

Also, I'm not running down the street shoving this in anyone's face. It's kept in tidy little boxes on a forum. If it's valid to the discussion, I will be honest about my thoughts. I will be absolutely fine if you try to persuade me away from those thoughts, but calling me a douchebag is the last way that you're going to do that. If you can't handle that, don't make the thread.

[Aroura]

Look, if you just want to compare god to something that cannot be proven to exist, you can use Russel's Teapot as a great example.

Yes, that would be far less contemptuous. It should be noted that Russell was not so arrogant as to say there is no evidence. I believe he was careful enough to say there was insufficient evidence - a very big difference.

A lot of great minds have wasted effort trying to rationalize this one extraordinary claim as an exception when it meets no criteria to BE an exception, but instead should be held to the same standard.

Among all the accusations and recriminations did you happen to notice my explanation of why that the comparison is a category error. No one seems to have addressed it other than say "no it's not."

Also no I didn't, and to be honest, I don't feel like wading through the dog pile that is this thread to find it. If you post it again, or a link, I'd actually be interested in reading it.

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Wow no. I really don't see it as a reasonable thing to be offended by. I admit that they have every right to be offended, but their offense is on their end and not mine. Until they convince me that it is actually offensive, I am not going to lie or withhold my thoughts on this just to make them feel better.

Beliefs change. They are not a part of you. They are a product of the world around you. Instead of just getting flustered, it's much more productive to use reasoning to tell me why God and the Tooth Fairy shouldn't be compared. So far I'm not convinced by any of the arguments, so my mind has not been changed. I'm not sorry we don't agree.

Also, I'm not running down the street shoving this in anyone's face. It's kept in tidy little boxes on a forum. If it's valid to the discussion, I will be honest about my thoughts. I will be absolutely fine if you try to persuade me away from those thoughts, but calling me a douchebag is the last way that you're going to do that. If you can't handle that, don't make the thread.

I completely agree, as I said in my post, that since we are on an atheist forum, this is the place to say it. I also don't think anyone saying it is a douchbag at all. I just could also see why they felt insulted.
I do think making people uncomfortable in their belief is one way to change them, and this insult seems pretty minor.

Personally though, after hearing how insulting it seems from their side, I would stick by the validity of the argument itself, but realize it wasn't going to change a mind, most likely, if that was my goal.

This is what happens when I do my Dialectical behavior therapy and try and see both sides of an argument, lol.

[Jesster]

I completely agree, as I said in my post, that since we are on an atheist forum, this is the place to say it. I also don't think anyone saying it is a douchbag at all. I just could also see why they felt insulted.
I do think making people uncomfortable in their belief is one way to change them, and this insult seems pretty minor.

Personally though, after hearing how insulting it seems from their side, I would stick by the validity of the argument itself, but realize it wasn't going to change a mind, most likely, if that was my goal.

This is what happens when I do my Dialectical behavior therapy and try and see both sides of an argument, lol.

Well yes, the first post here started with NS converting his personal butthurt into that specific insult. While he was intending to insult others though, that's not how I'm seeing my deity comparison. I don't insult people over their religious beliefs and I don't see mocking the belief itself as an insult directed at the believer. If I wanted to insult them, I'd call them names as a result of their beliefs. So far I haven't done that, and yet they are sticking those words in my mouth anyway. You and the theists are welcome to view this as insulting all day long, but I don't see it. Again, not sorry.

I think one difference between you and I, Aroura, is that you seem to care about changing their beliefs (as I understood from your previous post at least). I don't care about converting anyone. I do care about informing others about what I do or do not believe, though. I'm going to keep doing that.

[Catholic_Lady]

Wow, you guys be angry, lol.

Look, I agree with the tooth fairy comparison. Im actually with Hammy and think it's possibly more absurd than fairies I also just agree that it's insulting to say aloud to a believer. You are responsible for what you say, if it affects others, particularly if they let you know how it made them feel, giving you the chance to edit it. If you, ehem, chose not to, that's fine, you are all adults and I'm not the boss of any of you.

You guys really think people freely chose belief and how one defines onesself though? Can anyone here chose to start believing in God right now? Can you alter any one belief at all for me today by choice alone?

Personally, if I'm trying to get a person to agree with me, that is to alter their belief, I think insulting them works against that purpose, weather I mean to or not, because it will cause them to shut out my reasoning with an emotional response. If your goal is just to point and laugh....have at it I guess.

Great post.

[robvalue]

This may come as a surprise, but I do believe in the tooth fairy. And I'm hurt, because some people are saying there is something very wrong with me. Why? Just because my belief is not popular with adults? I don't mind you mocking the belief itself, but why do you have to go and attack my character? You don't know why I believe. You're just assuming I'm some sort of crazy person.

What you have to understand is that the tooth fairy isn't quite as described to children. The parents put the money there, but that's because it is the will of the tooth fairy. It doesn't need to physically appear. You can't see it unless you really believe in it. Not many people do, and it doesn't often visit adults. Many children see it, as it does occasionally deliver money itself, to true believers. But the parents never accept this testimony.

I have had personal experiences with the tooth fairy, and it has changed my life. And I don't hide behind popularity. I own my belief. Mock it all you want, but stop attacking me as a person. You wouldn't like it if I did it to you.

[Aroura]

I completely agree, as I said in my post, that since we are on an atheist forum, this is the place to say it. I also don't think anyone saying it is a douchbag at all. I just could also see why they felt insulted.
I do think making people uncomfortable in their belief is one way to change them, and this insult seems pretty minor.

Personally though, after hearing how insulting it seems from their side, I would stick by the validity of the argument itself, but realize it wasn't going to change a mind, most likely, if that was my goal.

This is what happens when I do my Dialectical behavior therapy and try and see both sides of an argument, lol.

Well yes, the first post here started with NS converting his personal butthurt into that specific insult. While he was intending to insult others though, that's not how I'm seeing my deity comparison. I don't insult people over their religious beliefs and I don't see mocking the belief itself as an insult directed at the believer. If I wanted to insult them, I'd call them names as a result of their beliefs. So far I haven't done that, and yet they are sticking those words in my mouth anyway. You and the theists are welcome to view this as insulting all day long, but I don't see it. Again, not sorry.

I think one difference between you and I, Aroura, is that you seem to care about changing their beliefs (as I understood from your previous post at least). I don't care about converting anyone. I do care about informing others about what I do or do not believe, though. I'm going to keep doing that.

I actually have zero interest in converting, or deconverting people. I spend almost no time on this forums debating theists, and even less IRL, lol.  I have no idea why I phrased it that way.
Let me rephrase to, if you want someone to listen to your ideas and try and understand your point of view (which seems to be what you want), instead of CHANGE to their point of view.  Same thing, same point about how to address them. This applies completely to the OP calling people douchbags or whatever, as well, and is not directed at any single member in this thread,more of a general observation on my part. If he wants us to listen and not just get offended and riles up, then don't call your audience douchebags. 

But whatever, I can see you aren't interested in what I was saying anyway, and that's fine too.

[AceBoogie]

Wow, you guys be angry, lol.

Look, I agree with the tooth fairy comparison. Im actually with Hammy and think it's possibly more absurd than fairies  I also just agree that it's insulting to say aloud to a believer. You are responsible for what you say, if it affects others, particularly if they let you know how it made them feel, giving you the chance to edit it. If you, ehem, chose not to, that's fine, you are all adults and I'm not the boss of any of you.

You guys really think people freely chose belief and how one defines onesself though? Can anyone here chose to start believing in God right now? Can you alter any one belief at all for me today by choice alone?

Personally,  if I'm trying to get a person to agree with me, that is to alter their belief, I think insulting them works against that purpose, weather I mean to or not, because it will cause them to shut out my reasoning with an emotional response. If your goal is just to point and laugh....have at it I guess.

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Also, remember that most of the atheists here on this forum used to be theists at some point. I don't think the conversations are pointless or that all theists are brick walls. I've seen at least 2 Christians deconverted after conversations with non believers, though it took time to digest in both cases, both admitted why. I myself deconverted as an adult, for many reasons really, and it was a long process, but what put me over the hump were good arguments from a non believer.

Meh, again you are all adults. I just find a pot of honey draws more flies than a pot of vinegar. Maybe we should just give them POT? Lol

I don't think there's any anger, certainly a lot of frustration.

At the end of the day I don't think anyone should be so offended by an insult that they react as Neo has. I mean if we want to play tit for tat, let's go tit for tat. Theists will lose that game any day of the week.

[downbeatplumb]

Meh, like I said, I see tooth fairy comparisons here all the time and have never said a word. I came into this thread to confirm for the first time ever that yes, I do find it offensive, and to explain why I do. That's all. I'm not trying to silence anyone, neither do i expect anyone to actually care. Chad and I have just as much right to say we find a particular comment offensive as anyone else does to make the offensive remark in the first place, imho. There are numerous threads here about ppl taking offense to others saying they prayed for them. But somehow me and Chad are the only "sensitive/insecure" ones.

I understand that as a believer you disagree that belief in god is different somehow to belief in the tooth fairy, but to try and limit how we can describe how we view things is a little controlling.



To me there is no difference and the tooth fairy comparison is perhaps the easiest way to convey how we feel to theists.

It is not meant as an insult (by me) but as a quick way to show how I honestly feel about the god you choose to believe in.

[ignoramus]

My theory.
Jesus is Santa! Have you ever seen both at the same time! (too soon?) lol!

[Joods]

I'm batman and you can't prove otherwise.