Posts: 3064
Threads: 3
Joined: July 10, 2016
Reputation:
37
RE: Does the World Need Religion?
January 25, 2017 at 1:23 pm
(This post was last modified: January 25, 2017 at 1:23 pm by Jesster.)
(January 25, 2017 at 1:19 pm)phoenix31 Wrote: Well I don't necessarily agree that you could make anyone believe any system. And because if morality is relative, without religion, anybody can choose his or her own morality and doesn't have to go along with any particular secular moral code.
And because morality is relative, anybody can also choose to ignore the doctrine of a religious society.
And now we are going around in circles. You seem to think that a religious society is somehow able to sidestep the relative morality issue. Why is that?
Posts: 216
Threads: 15
Joined: April 15, 2015
Reputation:
4
RE: Does the World Need Religion?
January 25, 2017 at 1:32 pm
(This post was last modified: January 25, 2017 at 1:57 pm by TheoneandonlytrueGod.)
(January 25, 2017 at 11:05 am)phoenix31 Wrote: What do you say to those who make the argument that more atrocities have been committed by atheists than by religions?
Atheists aren't any more likely to commit atrocities than religious people but just a likely. Being an atheist is no more an assurance of love of humanity or antisemitism (for instance) as anyone else.
As far as I am concerned the world wouldn't be any better off without religion. There would still be wars, political, cultural and just general disagreements that would result in wars or local difficulties or aggravations.
Robert
Today is the best day of my life and tomorrow will be even better.
Posts: 64
Threads: 6
Joined: January 20, 2017
Reputation:
2
RE: Does the World Need Religion?
January 25, 2017 at 1:33 pm
(This post was last modified: January 25, 2017 at 1:35 pm by phoenix31.)
(January 25, 2017 at 1:23 pm)Jesster Wrote: (January 25, 2017 at 1:19 pm)phoenix31 Wrote: Well I don't necessarily agree that you could make anyone believe any system. And because if morality is relative, without religion, anybody can choose his or her own morality and doesn't have to go along with any particular secular moral code.
And because morality is relative, anybody can also choose to ignore the doctrine of a religious society.
And now we are going around in circles. You seem to think that a religious society is somehow able to sidestep the relative morality issue. Why is that?
I know anybody can choose to ignore the doctrine of a religious society. I was just saying that they often don't because they believe morality is not relative.
I don't recognize when I'm going in circles and I'm not good at arguing.  So maybe that's the end of this discussion...
(January 25, 2017 at 1:32 pm)Omnibus E Plrus Nhilist Wrote: Atheists aren't any more likely to commit atrocities than religious people but just a likely. Being an atheist is no more an assurance of love of humanity or antisemitism (for instance) as anyone else.
Did you see my post earlier about the amount of atrocities perpetuated by atheists? I wonder what your take is on that.
Posts: 25314
Threads: 239
Joined: August 26, 2010
Reputation:
156
RE: Does the World Need Religion?
January 25, 2017 at 1:37 pm
Now demonstrate that those atrocities were committed for atheistic reasons. Then we'll talk about atrocities by religious people for religious reasons.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
Posts: 3064
Threads: 3
Joined: July 10, 2016
Reputation:
37
RE: Does the World Need Religion?
January 25, 2017 at 1:39 pm
(January 25, 2017 at 1:33 pm)phoenix31 Wrote: I know anybody can choose to ignore the doctrine of a religious society. I was just saying that they often don't because they believe morality is not relative.
I don't recognize when I'm going in circles and I'm not good at arguing. So maybe that's the end of this discussion...
Then you're just wrong. People who are going to break the rules are going off their own values and aren't going to change just because you base your system on religion.
(January 25, 2017 at 1:33 pm)phoenix31 Wrote: (January 25, 2017 at 1:32 pm)Omnibus E Plrus Nhilist Wrote: Atheists aren't any more likely to commit atrocities than religious people but just a likely. Being an atheist is no more an assurance of love of humanity or antisemitism (for instance) as anyone else.
Did you see my post earlier about the amount of atrocities perpetuated by atheists? I wonder what your take is on that.
Actually, Omnibus addressed this perfectly in this very post already.
Posts: 64
Threads: 6
Joined: January 20, 2017
Reputation:
2
RE: Does the World Need Religion?
January 25, 2017 at 1:43 pm
(This post was last modified: January 25, 2017 at 1:45 pm by phoenix31.)
(January 25, 2017 at 1:37 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Now demonstrate that those atrocities were committed for atheistic reasons. Then we'll talk about atrocities by religious people for religious reasons.
I know atrocities happen in the name of religion but what I am saying is that more atrocities happened by people who were atheists.
This is what the conservapedia site says:
Christian philosophers and theologians explain that there are causal links between mass murder and atheism. Atheism, lack belief in God, have the following characteristics that can lend itself to mass murder and can explain why the greatest mass murderers were atheists: [21]
- Lack of recognition of an ultimate judge of moral actions and a judge who sets injustice aright in a last judgement, and thus do not recognize the immorality of murder.
- Lack of seeing the importance of human beings as images of God and so easily discarding them as merely material things, products of mere chance.
- Lack of acknowledging an external standard of moral perfection, thus ending up with self-created standards which can include killing for political survival.
- Absence of guidance by divine revelation of the moral law, such as "Thou shalt not kill".
- Following an ethic of atheistic evolutionism that is based on the survival and victory of the fittest, which is ultimately a bloodthirsty ethic—an ethic that is eager to kill and to maim. This ethic is about conquering others rather than self-conquest.[22]
- The intolerance of many atheists (see: Atheism and intolerance)
What do you think?
Posts: 3064
Threads: 3
Joined: July 10, 2016
Reputation:
37
RE: Does the World Need Religion?
January 25, 2017 at 1:45 pm
Conservapedia?
Posts: 64
Threads: 6
Joined: January 20, 2017
Reputation:
2
RE: Does the World Need Religion?
January 25, 2017 at 1:46 pm
(This post was last modified: January 25, 2017 at 1:47 pm by phoenix31.)
(January 25, 2017 at 1:39 pm)Jesster Wrote: (January 25, 2017 at 1:33 pm)phoenix31 Wrote: I know anybody can choose to ignore the doctrine of a religious society. I was just saying that they often don't because they believe morality is not relative.
I don't recognize when I'm going in circles and I'm not good at arguing. So maybe that's the end of this discussion...
Then you're just wrong. People who are going to break the rules are going off their own values and aren't going to change just because you base your system on religion. I'm not sure I really understand what you're saying, because I'm talking about people who don't break the rules.
(January 25, 2017 at 1:45 pm)Jesster Wrote: Conservapedia?
Yeah I had never heard of it either till today when I was looking at this information.
Posts: 3064
Threads: 3
Joined: July 10, 2016
Reputation:
37
RE: Does the World Need Religion?
January 25, 2017 at 1:49 pm
(This post was last modified: January 25, 2017 at 1:51 pm by Jesster.)
(January 25, 2017 at 1:46 pm)phoenix31 Wrote: (January 25, 2017 at 1:39 pm)Jesster Wrote: Then you're just wrong. People who are going to break the rules are going off their own values and aren't going to change just because you base your system on religion. I'm not sure I really understand what you're saying, because I'm talking about people who don't break the rules.
Why are we concerned about people who don't break the rules? If they aren't going to break the rules, they'll be just as well off in a secular society with a good set of shared values.
I'm really starting to lose your point.
(January 25, 2017 at 1:46 pm)phoenix31 Wrote: Yeah I had never heard of it either till today when I was looking at this information.
Oh I've heard of it plenty. Conservapedia is a heavily biased right-wing Christian source. Of course they are going to talk shit about atheists.
Do you care where you get your information from, or is anything on the internet acceptable?
Posts: 64
Threads: 6
Joined: January 20, 2017
Reputation:
2
RE: Does the World Need Religion?
January 25, 2017 at 1:55 pm
(January 25, 2017 at 1:49 pm)Jesster Wrote: (January 25, 2017 at 1:46 pm)phoenix31 Wrote: I'm not sure I really understand what you're saying, because I'm talking about people who don't break the rules.
Why are we concerned about people who don't break the rules? If they aren't going to break the rules, they'll be just as well off in a secular society with a good set of shared values.
I'm really starting to lose your point.
We aren't concerned with people who don't break the rules. That was my whole point. That religious people are more apt to try to avoid breaking the rules because they believe morality is not relative and that there is divine retribution for sin.
(January 25, 2017 at 1:46 pm)phoenix31 Wrote: Yeah I had never heard of it either till today when I was looking at this information.
Oh I've heard of it plenty. Conservapedia is a heavily biased right-wing Christian source. Of course they are going to talk shit about atheists.
Do you care where you get your information from, or is anything on the internet acceptable?
What I care about is if what they're saying has any merit.
|
