I Find It Offensive; How About You

[MilesTailsPrower]

Anybody can be a free thinker if they don't let religion effect all of their philosophy. Simple? Unless you lost your individuality and let everyone else think for you, than you are NOT a freethinker

Also anymouse why did they picket your home?

This was in 1984. I was running a Wiccan bulletin board service on my Commodore 64. (Yes. I am that old.) It became the largest BBS in Virginia Beach (in terms of users). That got it attention from the local paper, the Virginian Pilot and Ledger-Star. Then the wackos at CBN started their pickets at my apartment. Including such loving placards as "Burn the Witch."

My wife and I had to take refuge on the Naval Air Station because the police would not clear the pickets (Virginia Beach is the home of Pat Robertson and CBN, they support him far more than a military Wiccan from Michigan), and the threats became personal, and the picketers would physically block us from entering or leaving our apartment.

Gradually, as things did with BBS's back then, mine dropped in popularity when new and different BBS's came along. (One called Tom's Place, a FidoNet porn board, did especially well against mine.)

I eventually pulled down my BBS when I was transferred to Spain. I briefly set it up there, but when I found that Wicca was unlawful in Spain, I pulled it down again, primarily because the Status of Forces Agreement between the USA and Spain would not have protected me as I lived in town, not on the base in Rota.

CBN as christian broadcast network? Sounds like a story. Still i don't see any reason to picket over something like that. Reminds me of Westboro Baptist church with all their pickets.

[Anymouse]

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Anybody can be a free thinker if they don't let religion effect all of their philosophy. Simple? Unless you lost your individuality and let everyone else think for you, than you are NOT a freethinker

Also anymouse why did they picket your home?

This was in 1984. I was running a Wiccan bulletin board service on my Commodore 64. (Yes. I am that old.) It became the largest BBS in Virginia Beach (in terms of users). That got it attention from the local paper, the Virginian Pilot and Ledger-Star. Then the wackos at CBN started their pickets at my apartment. Including such loving placards as "Burn the Witch."

My wife and I had to take refuge on the Naval Air Station because the police would not clear the pickets (Virginia Beach is the home of Pat Robertson and CBN, they support him far more than a military Wiccan from Michigan), and the threats became personal, and the picketers would physically block us from entering or leaving our apartment.

Gradually, as things did with BBS's back then, mine dropped in popularity when new and different BBS's came along. (One called Tom's Place, a FidoNet porn board, did especially well against mine.)

I eventually pulled down my BBS when I was transferred to Spain. I briefly set it up there, but when I found that Wicca was unlawful in Spain, I pulled it down again, primarily because the Status of Forces Agreement between the USA and Spain would not have protected me as I lived in town, not on the base in Rota.

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CBN as christian broadcast network? Sounds like a story. Still i don't see any reason to picket over something like that. Reminds me of Westboro Baptist church with all their pickets.

Yup. Christian Broadcasting Network. They are located on the west side of Virginia Beach near Chesapeake, I lived in the resort strip on the Beach. I don't know how radical they are now (but that article on the Holy Interstate 35 my wife just played seems to indicate they haven't changed much), but they also have a university as well as the television network headquarters at their site. It is that university that does all the radical evangelizing. The students do the dirty work, and Rev. Robertson can take the high road on "The 700 Club" with such claims as gay marriage will lead to sex with ducks. (I love that Garfunkel and Oates video on YouTube. It is a quack. Or a hoot._

When I lived in Virginia Beach, they picketed anything that they thought was "anti-Christian." At the time, the Edgar Cayce Foundation (also located in Virginia Beach) got nearly monthly pickets. So did the occult bookstore in Norfolk.

Not a story (in the sense of an untrue one): Virginia Beach is really wound up. They bill themselves as a "family values city" and every two hundred feet along their ninety miles of public beach there is a sign: "No food, no drinks, no beach toys, no running, no thongs, have fun." The city seal incorporates a Latin Cross.

[LastPoet]

Funny, I never considered atheists and freethinkers the same thing, I think freethinkers can be atheists or theists. It may intersect people in both of these groups, although the nature of religion really puts alot of theists out of freethought, but its hard for them to admit it.

If you believe an unsupported claim and try to wrap your worldview around it, you are limiting your thought, simple as that.

But in the end no one is really a freethinker in an absolute way, people are influenced by others, by books, by education, by all the 'bumps' along the way.

[MilesTailsPrower]

Free-thinker is just a self imposed title. No reason for it.

[Faith No More]

Funny, I never considered atheists and freethinkers the same thing, I think freethinkers can be atheists or theists. It may intersect people in both of these groups, although the nature of religion really puts alot of theists out of freethought, but its hard for them to admit it.

If you believe an unsupported claim and try to wrap your worldview around it, you are limiting your thought, simple as that.

But in the end no one is really a freethinker in an absolute way, people are influenced by others, by books, by education, by all the 'bumps' along the way.

My problem with using freethinker as a synonym for atheist is that there are a lot of dumbass atheists out there that haven't thought a day in their life. You know the ones, they're only atheist because it feels anti authoritarian and cool to rebel, but they've never justified their position with actual thought.

[MilesTailsPrower]

Funny, I never considered atheists and freethinkers the same thing, I think freethinkers can be atheists or theists. It may intersect people in both of these groups, although the nature of religion really puts alot of theists out of freethought, but its hard for them to admit it.

If you believe an unsupported claim and try to wrap your worldview around it, you are limiting your thought, simple as that.

But in the end no one is really a freethinker in an absolute way, people are influenced by others, by books, by education, by all the 'bumps' along the way.

My problem with using freethinker as a synonym for atheist is that there are a lot of dumbass atheists out there that haven't thought a day in their life. You know the ones, they're only atheist because it feels anti authoritarian and cool to rebel, but they've never justified their position with actual thought.

Exactly, that's like going to school and a guy is bragging about being a "free-thinker" but doesn't give any evidence to back up why he is a so called "free-thinker" I think if you want a word to say that you don't believe in god than just use "atheist". The ones that are only atheist because it feels anti authoritarian and cool to rebel probably can't spell atheist right, they would spell atheist as this: athiest?

Good point FaithNoMore

[Faith No More]

Just like adolescents choose to be independent in their fashion choices yet mostly end up looking the same, so Atheists choose to be free thinkers yet end up thinking the same as the majority.

You are committing classic psychological projection.

That's what the inference of a default position is... lack of thought. Unless you're saying that newborn babies have a thoughtful opposition?

You are assuming that anyone who is an atheist just hasn't thought about their position. I'm not sure what newborn babies have to do with this, but if you're equating them with all atheists you're either being disingenuous or outright stupid.

Then when you're capable of thought... it takes no thought to not believe something.

Sure, not believing in something doesn't require thought, but that does not mean that anyone who doesn't believe hasn't put any thought into it.

You could then not think for yourself and believe what you're told or what everyone around you thinks... but still we're not at the point of free thinking. So the probability of an atheist being a free thinker is stacked against them already.

This assumes that all atheists are raised to be atheists. What you're forgetting is that your religion has done plenty to turn people away, people who didn't automatically believe what they're told. So if not automatically believing what you're told is the requirement for being a freethinker then it is stacked against the theist.

Look fr0d0, I agree that freethinker is not a term that should be used in place of any one belief system, but in trying to defend your position you are making grossly ignorant generalizations and talking out of your ass.

[fr0d0]

Hey FNM

As has been said, freethinking has no ties, especially with theological positions. We (several people on this thread) are actually talking about a default position being what you're born with... what babies are --> atheists. It depends on the definition.

No one is saying atheism must = no thought ...but it's in my interest to point out the balance here. Yes I like to provoke. I'm not alone.

"Your religion (has done plenty to turn people away)" <--- I think you're talking about anti Christians dressed as Christians. Even me sometimes.

How can a believer 'automatically' believe what they're told? How is that even possible? The fools are everywhere. It does you no favours comparing yourself to them. Explain the validity of your position rather than belittle the unfortunate... it'll make you lot a whole lot more convincing

[Faith No More]

As has been said, freethinking has no ties, especially with theological positions. We (several people on this thread) are actually talking about a default position being what you're born with... what babies are --> atheists. It depends on the definition.

I interpreted what you said as all atheists take the default position because they haven't put any thought into it. My apologies and I redact my last post.

Yes I like to provoke. I'm not alone.

I have noticed that and no you're not alone.

"Your religion (has done plenty to turn people away)" <--- I think you're talking about anti Christians dressed as Christians. Even me sometimes.

If your definition of an anti Christian is someone who misuses Christianity than yes, that is what I meant.

How can a believer 'automatically' believe what they're told? How is that even possible? The fools are everywhere. It does you no favours comparing yourself to them. Explain the validity of your position rather than belittle the unfortunate... it'll make you lot a whole lot more convincing

Whenever a person in a position of authority is peddling anything as truth, there will always be someone who believes it without questioning, which is the very antithesis of a free thinker. To automatically believe is to not search for what you see as the truth yourself, but to just take someone else's interpretation as valid. Many people of all ideologies, not just religion, rely on this fact.

[fr0d0]

Misusing Christianity isn't Christianity would you agree?

Would you include following the words of the commercially successful atheists like Dawkins? I suppose you do. Kudos