Trump: "Any negative polls are fake news"

[Crossless2.0]

Candidate Trump says outrageous shit, knowing the media will give him virtually unlimited free coverage. Trump supporters clap like trained seals.

President Trump and his advisors/spokespersons are fact-checked by same media that are 'seeking to discredit' him, according to Trump and his supporters. "What an outrage! How unfair!" shrieks the lemming gallery.

What's he supposed to do? How about pretending to act with a modicum of dignity befitting the office and -- oh, I don't know -- hewing closer to reality so that he's not constantly being called out on his completely avoidable bullshit. Now that he's President, he shouldn't have to pander to his base. He could be . . . Presidential.

[Brian37]

Candidate Trump says outrageous shit, knowing the media will give him virtually unlimited free coverage. Trump supporters clap like trained seals.

President Trump and his advisors/spokespersons are fact-checked by same media that are 'seeking to discredit' him, according to Trump and his supporters. "What an outrage! How unfair!" shrieks the lemming gallery.

What's he supposed to do? How about pretending to act with a modicum of dignity befitting the office and -- oh, I don't know -- hewing closer to reality so that he's not constantly being called out on his completely avoidable bullshit. Now that he's President, he shouldn't have to pander to his base. He could be . . . Presidential.

He cant and he wont. His daddy taught him to be a bully. He has a very unhealthy need to be liked and that stems from being desperate for his dad's approval. So when he doesn't get that he lashes out. You can see the same behaviors in other despots like Saddam and Hitler. They also had abusive parents. Trump is not a average sociopath, his dads verbal abuse scrambled his brain which made him the bully he is today.

[Violet]

What is he supposed to do - tell everyone that the media that hates him is justified in hating him lol? The media seeks to discredit him and so he will seek to discredit them. Makes sense to me. I mean he could just go full dictator and ban all media that isn't government

Haha, that would be the fascism I hear them screamin about

Instead, Obama signed that bill leaving office that enables the government to literally propagandize us. All we can hope is that Trump goes the counter-culture of the establishment, and guts the offenses on our liberties. If he don't, then, well... what can we do to stop him from using the terrible powers his station has been granted over the last decade? 

Pray the military defects with us?

Uh yeah, sort of. Gaslighting is a term in the poli sci community to describe the way populist leaders try to totally discredit the media so that the people get their information directly from the leader.

... That.... that...........

My has gaslightin changed. A more comparable form of it in politics would be what China does. There was never a town here, what are you, crazy? He thinks there was a giant explosion that killed hundreds of people he knew have you lost it, sir!? Lock this man up, he crazy! Stick him in with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank_Man already! 

It just... gaslighting is an incredibly specific form of abuse, one where the senses of a sane and astute person are intentionally made out to be flawed and failing by another to further control what the victim does. It doesn't make any sense to use it to describe things it isn't (political). 

While there may be problems with discrediting the media in certain situations: the situation where the specific media outlets Trump noted as being fake news have more or less earned it that moniker at this point is not one that I'm particularly concerned about at the moment. I'd love to see some real nonpartisan news... but about the only way I can find news I can trust these days is to watch what people say uncut and unvarnished (C-span, for instance, or from very specific real investigative journalism, such as that O'keefe lately).

[I_am_not_mafia]

It may have the effect of gaslighting, but I honestly reckon that Trump genuinely believes what he is saying. He cannot conceive that he may do badly at something.

[Aroura]

What is he supposed to do - tell everyone that the media that hates him is justified in hating him lol? The media seeks to discredit him and so he will seek to discredit them. Makes sense to me. I mean he could just go full dictator and ban all media that isn't government

Haha, that would be the fascism I hear them screamin about

Instead, Obama signed that bill leaving office that enables the government to literally propagandize us. All we can hope is that Trump goes the counter-culture of the establishment, and guts the offenses on our liberties. If he don't, then, well... what can we do to stop him from using the terrible powers his station has been granted over the last decade? 

Pray the military defects with us?

Uh yeah, sort of. Gaslighting is a term in the poli sci community to describe the way populist leaders try to totally discredit the media so that the people get their information directly from the leader.

... That.... that...........

My has gaslightin changed. A more comparable form of it in politics would be what China does. There was never a town here, what are you, crazy? He thinks there was a giant explosion that killed hundreds of people he knew have you lost it, sir!? Lock this man up, he crazy! Stick him in with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank_Man already! 

It just... gaslighting is an incredibly specific form of abuse, one where the senses of a sane and astute person are intentionally made out to be flawed and failing by another to further control what the victim does. It doesn't make any sense to use it to describe things it isn't (political). 

While there may be problems with discrediting the media in certain situations: the situation where the specific media outlets Trump noted as being fake news have more or less earned it that moniker at this point is not one that I'm particularly concerned about at the moment. I'd love to see some real nonpartisan news... but about the only way I can find news I can trust these days is to watch what people say uncut and unvarnished (C-span, for instance, or from very specific real investigative journalism, such as that O'keefe lately).

Gaslighting has ALWAYS meant to say a bold faced lie in the face of an obvious truth, to try and get people to doubt the obvious truths. This is the original meaning.  Political or not is irrelevant.  Trump Gaslights us all the time.  And yes, saying it's fake news if someone disagrees with him is gaslighting because it's an obvious falsehood, meant to make the people who know it's fake doubt themselves....exactly as you have described.  It's like you cannot see it the lie....like he's.....gaslighted you.  How funny.

[Violet]

ABBA didn't market their music with bullshit demagoguery by being fucking dicks to everyone. Asshole didn't win pop vote and the EC win still was at the bottom of EC win margins. The asshole still lied about his turnout, which was still lower than BOTH Obama's inaugurations and even the Woman's March. Now ask me again what I think of that jackass bully.
Agnetha Faltskog of ABBA is pro LGBT where as asshole bully Trump selected a fucking right wing religious bigot in VP Pence. Yea, the jackass won, sure, but please don't blow smoke up my ass and pretend  it was in the slightest bit moral.

FYI ABBA didn't win any political offices no, but they sure as hell won lots of music awards during their career. Very close to Beatles sales. 

If this is falsely accusing me of "sour grapes" no. Trump is not only an asshole bully, but a very dangerous political demagogue beyond party.

Brian37... don't ever change

After all these years... you still bite, love 

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It may have the effect of gaslighting, but I honestly reckon that Trump genuinely believes what he is saying. He cannot conceive that he may do badly at something.

That is much more likely
 
Dude has pulled some crazy stunts over the years xD (Art of the Deal, I can't tell if the bastard is brilliant, incredibly lucky, or literally blessed by God)

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Gaslighting has ALWAYS meant to say a bold faced lie in the face of an obvious truth, to try and get people to doubt the obvious truths. This is the original meaning.  Political or not is irrelevant.  Trump Gaslights us all the time.  And yes, saying it's fake news if someone disagrees with him is gaslighting because it's an obvious falsehood, meant to make the people who know it's fake doubt themselves....exactly as you have described.  It's like you cannot see it the lie....like he's.....gaslighted you.  How funny.

Hey, it's Dr Horrible

I haven't noticed any gaslighting from Daddy... would care to specify any of these 'bold faced lies' in the face of the obvious and ever unsubjective truth?

I have no doubts about how I feel about his presidency so far... so.... no?

Seriously yall.... ya gotta ground yerselves. 101polisci don't fly in this skyspace

[Aroura]

I feel like I'm being trolled...lol.
Almost everything he says is a lie, so if you don't notice it, I don't know what to tell you.  3 million illegal voters, he won in a landslide, his inauguration crowd was the biggest ever in history, and yes, this, that the polls were wrong and are therefore fake news.

As has been pointed out by people like Nate Silver, the polls were actually quite accurate in the majority of places, and overall.  They had Clinton about 2 points up, + or - 3 points to account for normal statistical error.  Funnily enough, she won the popular vote by about 2% points, exactly as the polls predicted.  There were no recent polls in Wisconson, the few that had been done earlier had her up less than 3, same with all the other states that flipped except Pennsylvanian, the only state that had a pretty large polling error. The other polls were all withing their + or - 3 points of error.   

I am fully aware that his supporters don't think he lies.  They have been successfully gaslighted.  It would be funny if it weren't quite so disastrous for everyone (including them).

[Violet]

I feel like I'm being trolled...lol.
Almost everything he says is a lie, so if you don't notice it, I don't know what to tell you.  3 million illegal voters, he won in a landslide, his inauguration crowd was the biggest ever in history, and yes, this, that the polls were wrong and are therefore fake news.

Unfortunately, not this time. And really, sure some lies, some being wrong, and some inaccuracies... not much nonhuman/normal though.

There are likely severe abuses of our voting system. Easily in the hundreds of thousands. 3 million would be a very wide and unlikely estimate, however... and whether they changed anything is... unknown quantity.

He did win in an electoral landslide, but lots of state votes were very close either way, so it could have been much bigger or much smaller with not all that many alternate votes.

His inauguration crowd was a lie... but that's him being petty, and has no real affect on anything... and there were protesters preventing people from getting in... bit of a wash to me.

The polls are incredibly suspect these days, and strongly appear to represent a political bias. After enough polls are wrong in a row, it's less and less believable that the polls were simply wrong based on garbage data, and more and more believable that the polls are wrong based on propaganda. Or, as you guys like to say. Gaslighting 

As has been pointed out by people like Nate Silver, the polls were actually quite accurate in the majority of places, and overall.  They had Clinton about 2 points up, + or - 3 points to account for normal statistical error.  Funnily enough, she won the popular vote by about 2% points, exactly as the polls predicted.  There were no recent polls in Wisconson, the few that had been done earlier had her up less than 3, same with all the other states that flipped except Pennsylvanian, the only state that had a pretty large polling error. The other polls were all withing their + or - 3 points of error.

Not how I remember it... I was watching several election night coverages. If there's been a review of the nonsense they were spouting at the time since, then I haven't been aware of it... and it hasn't stopped the fact that the polls were portrayed by the media in a damnable way.

I am fully aware that his supporters don't think he lies.  They have been successfully gaslighted.  It would be funny if it weren't quite so disastrous for everyone (including them).

I'm not a trump supporter... didn't vote for anyone. Would have voted for Trump after finding out that Clinton DID rig her primary. I hate cheaters, more than anything. Other than pedos and their ilk, I mean.

I do largely admire how he has done so far, though. I'm impressed Nobody is gaslighte-well, I say that... but then again, the left has gone off the rails lately. Riots and such.

[Aroura]

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His inauguration crowd was a lie... but that's him being petty, and has no real affect on anything... and there were protesters preventing people from getting in... bit of a wash to me.

So even the one you admit was a lie is a "bit of a wash" to you.  And I may as well have been talking to a deaf person about polling errors included in the polls, and the fact that nationally, there were very accurate.  Trump didn't say the news portrayal of polls were fake news, he said "Any negative polls are fake news".  <----the polls themselves.  however, I know you won't care about the details that distinguish an outright lie, from your earlier responses.

Sigh. 

Whatever.  Carry on.

[Violet]

So even the one you admit was a lie is a "bit of a wash" to you.  And I may as well have been talking to a deaf person about polling errors included in the polls, and the fact that nationally, there were very accurate.

Sigh. 

Whatever.  Carry on.

That's the point of the problem... people have gone absolutely nuts over the little things that should just be jokes. Observe:

Trump's inauguration crowd was almost as big as his hands!

...

Instead, I have 8 news sites telling me how this means that he's a fascist and is the second coming of Hitler Hussein Satan.

Important: Perception and presentation account for a great deal in this world. They affect how a person reacts to what is said. When the media uptrumps all kinds of bad polling data and treats it as anything more than a prediction, or, present it in a terribly one-sided light: it has the effect of generating disgust and distrust towards what was said.

You can say that the earth is round all you like... but if you treat people who believe otherwise to ad homs: they ain't gonna be too inclined to hear your truths... however true they may or might not be.