Ontario Passes Anti-Islamophobia Bill

[KUSA]

Fuck Islam.

[ignoramus]

Would love to see the the actual bill wording.
Singling out a specific religion is ridiculous.

I believe it states that if you make fun of their religion, they cut your tongue off!
If you get caught treating your wife as an equal, they chop your balls off!
Something like that...

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Here's what the Motion 37 (it isn't a bill or a law. It is a 'motion') actually says:

In the opinion of this House, the Legislative Assembly of Ontario should reaffirm that diversity has always played an important part in Ontario's culture and heritage; recognize the significant contributions Muslims have made, and continue to make, to Ontario's cultural and social fabric and prosperity; stand against all forms of hatred, hostility, prejudice, racism and intolerance; rebuke the notable growing tide of anti-Muslim rhetoric and sentiments; denounce hate-attacks, threats of violence and hate crimes against people of the Muslim faith; condemn all forms of Islamophobia and reaffirm its support for government's efforts, through the Anti-Racism Directorate, to address and prevent systemic racism across government policy, programs and services, and increase anti-racism education and awareness, including Islamophobia, in all parts of the province.

I'm unsure how anyone could have a problem with this.

Boru

[brewer]

Here's what the Motion 37 (it isn't a bill or a law.  It is a 'motion') actually says:

In the opinion of this House, the Legislative Assembly of Ontario should reaffirm that diversity has always played an important part in Ontario's culture and heritage; recognize the significant contributions Muslims have made, and continue to make, to Ontario's cultural and social fabric and prosperity; stand against all forms of hatred, hostility, prejudice, racism and intolerance; rebuke the notable growing tide of anti-Muslim rhetoric and sentiments; denounce hate-attacks, threats of violence and hate crimes against people of the Muslim faith; condemn all forms of Islamophobia and reaffirm its support for government's efforts, through the Anti-Racism Directorate, to address and prevent systemic racism across government policy, programs and services, and increase anti-racism education and awareness, including Islamophobia, in all parts of the province.

I'm unsure how anyone could have a problem with this.

Boru

Got no problem with a that.

[MTL]

Here's what the Motion 37 (it isn't a bill or a law.  It is a 'motion') actually says:

In the opinion of this House, the Legislative Assembly of Ontario should reaffirm that diversity has always played an important part in Ontario's culture and heritage; recognize the significant contributions Muslims have made, and continue to make, to Ontario's cultural and social fabric and prosperity; stand against all forms of hatred, hostility, prejudice, racism and intolerance; rebuke the notable growing tide of anti-Muslim rhetoric and sentiments; denounce hate-attacks, threats of violence and hate crimes against people of the Muslim faith; condemn all forms of Islamophobia and reaffirm its support for government's efforts, through the Anti-Racism Directorate, to address and prevent systemic racism across government policy, programs and services, and increase anti-racism education and awareness, including Islamophobia, in all parts of the province.

I'm unsure how anyone could have a problem with this.

Boru

These parts, I don't have much of a problem with, with exceptions:

the Legislative Assembly of Ontario should reaffirm that diversity has always played an important part in Ontario's culture and heritage; recognize the significant contributions Muslims have made, and continue to make, to Ontario's cultural and social fabric and prosperity; stand against all forms of hatred, hostility, prejudice, racism and intolerance;

Bold, mine.

This could, of course, just as easily say "minorities", and not single-out Muslims as if they have made more contributions than anyone else.

denounce hate-attacks, threats of violence and hate crimes against people of the Muslim faith

Bold, mine.

I don't feel it needed to single-out people of "the Muslim faith".  This should apply to everyone.

reaffirm its support for government's efforts, through the Anti-Racism Directorate, to address and prevent systemic racism across government policy, programs and services, and increase anti-racism education and awareness

By itself, this part is just fine; it is commendable to address and prevent racism.



But with this, I take issue:

rebuke the notable growing tide of anti-Muslim rhetoric and sentiments;

I would prefer it said "anti-Islam" rather than "anti-Muslim", because then it points out that it is okay to criticize the religion itself,
as opposed to persecuting individuals who are simply members of a religion.

This is one of those statements that I feel is unclear and open to interpretation;
I don't want it to be against the law to criticize a religion.

condemn all forms of Islamophobia

Again, this needs clarification.  If Islamophobia means an irrational fear of something that you have no reason to fear, and prejudice or persecution against members of a group, simply because they are of that group, then fine.

Again, I think Homophobia is a true phobia; there is no rational reason to fear the LGBT community simply because they are LGBT, and they should of course enjoy the same rights to marry, etc, as non-LGBT.

But my fear of Islam...and indeed all religion...is not a "phobia".  It is not irrational at all. 
I have a mountain of reasons to fear religion.

And by legislating that it is illegal to have a rational fear of something,
and to make it unclear just how far am I am permitted to go, if at all, in criticizing that thing,
(IE: "condemn(ing) all forms of Islamophobia")
is to trample on my rights.

condemn all forms of Islamophobia and reaffirm its support for government's efforts, through the Anti-Racism Directorate

Bold, mine.

Again:  the difference between the "phobia" (the irrational fear, and hence the racism)
and the rational fear, needs to be clarified,

because, again,

Islam is not a Race.

It is a huge religion, which, like Christianity, laps over many races. 


No-one would say to someone who criticized Christianity, "Oh, you're a racist."
Because it wouldn't have any meaning.


There are Christian Arabs.  There are are Caucasian Muslims.


Again, I have a huge amount of respect for an Arab in an Islamic country who risks his life for the sake of his Apostasy.

Far more than I have for a docile, obedient, little sheep of a white North American Christian.


Another illustration:

Tibetan Buddhist monks are just as different and just as foreign to me as Arab Muslims,
yet they don't seem to instill the same amount of fear, somehow,
and white North Americans don't seem to have nearly as much of a problem with them.

The line between criticizing the religion, and deeming that racism, needs to be drawn.

[abaris]

MTL, this, as I said in my first post, would be because muslims are the new narrative jews for many people. The embodiment of evil, free to be harrassed and to be presented as scapegoats. Others, right now, don't get the same kind of treatment.

Once again, insert jew instead of muslim in all the comments that can be found up to the highest level - such as Dump, president of the fucking US. You might see where this leads. I, as a descendant of murdered jews, certainly do.

[Jesster]

Okay, after looking at the exact wording of this, it doesn't bother me too much. I can see a few ways this could be used inappropriately, but laws like this usually aren't. It will probably do nothing more than help.

[vorlon13]

US Christers are going to have a shit hemorrhage over the Ontario Muslim bill since it ignores the war against them.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

---

Here's what the Motion 37 (it isn't a bill or a law.  It is a 'motion') actually says:

In the opinion of this House, the Legislative Assembly of Ontario should reaffirm that diversity has always played an important part in Ontario's culture and heritage; recognize the significant contributions Muslims have made, and continue to make, to Ontario's cultural and social fabric and prosperity; stand against all forms of hatred, hostility, prejudice, racism and intolerance; rebuke the notable growing tide of anti-Muslim rhetoric and sentiments; denounce hate-attacks, threats of violence and hate crimes against people of the Muslim faith; condemn all forms of Islamophobia and reaffirm its support for government's efforts, through the Anti-Racism Directorate, to address and prevent systemic racism across government policy, programs and services, and increase anti-racism education and awareness, including Islamophobia, in all parts of the province.

I'm unsure how anyone could have a problem with this.

Boru

These parts, I don't have much of a problem with, with exceptions:

the Legislative Assembly of Ontario should reaffirm that diversity has always played an important part in Ontario's culture and heritage; recognize the significant contributions Muslims have made, and continue to make, to Ontario's cultural and social fabric and prosperity; stand against all forms of hatred, hostility, prejudice, racism and intolerance;

Bold, mine.

This could, of course, just as easily say "minorities", and not single-out Muslims as if they have made more contributions than anyone else.

denounce hate-attacks, threats of violence and hate crimes against people of the Muslim faith

Bold, mine.

I don't feel it needed to single-out people of "the Muslim faith".  This should apply to everyone.

reaffirm its support for government's efforts, through the Anti-Racism Directorate, to address and prevent systemic racism across government policy, programs and services, and increase anti-racism education and awareness

By itself, this part is just fine; it is commendable to address and prevent racism.



But with this, I take issue:

rebuke the notable growing tide of anti-Muslim rhetoric and sentiments;

I would prefer it said "anti-Islam" rather than "anti-Muslim", because then it points out that it is okay to criticize the religion itself,
as opposed to persecuting individuals who are simply members of a religion.

This is one of those statements that I feel is unclear and open to interpretation;
I don't want it to be against the law to criticize a religion.

condemn all forms of Islamophobia

Again, this needs clarification.  If Islamophobia means an irrational fear of something that you have no reason to fear, and prejudice or persecution against members of a group, simply because they are of that group, then fine.

Again, I think Homophobia is a true phobia; there is no rational reason to fear the LGBT community simply because they are LGBT, and they should of course enjoy the same rights to marry, etc, as non-LGBT.

But my fear of Islam...and indeed all religion...is not a "phobia".  It is not irrational at all. 
I have a mountain of reasons to fear religion.

And by legislating that it is illegal to have a rational fear of something,
and to make it unclear just how far am I am permitted to go, if at all, in criticizing that thing,
(IE: "condemn(ing) all forms of Islamophobia")
is to trample on my rights.

condemn all forms of Islamophobia and reaffirm its support for government's efforts, through the Anti-Racism Directorate

Bold, mine.

Again:  the difference between the "phobia" (the irrational fear, and hence the racism)
and the rational fear, needs to be clarified,

because, again,

Islam is not a Race.

It is a huge religion, which, like Christianity, laps over many races. 


No-one would say to someone who criticized Christianity, "Oh, you're a racist."
Because it wouldn't have any meaning.


There are Christian Arabs.  There are are Caucasian Muslims.


Again, I have a huge amount of respect for an Arab in an Islamic country who risks his life for the sake of his Apostasy.

Far more than I have for a docile, obedient, little sheep of a white North American Christian.


Another illustration:

Tibetan Buddhist monks are just as different and just as foreign to me as Arab Muslims,
yet they don't seem to instill the same amount of fear, somehow,
and white North Americans don't seem to have nearly as much of a problem with them.

The line between criticizing the religion, and deeming that racism, needs to be drawn.

---

But the whole point of the motion is that Muslims are being singled out, re the mosque attack. Remember, this is a motions as to how the LA of Ontario should conduct itself with regard to crimes against Muslims. It doesn't have the force of law, it is simply a reaction to the mosque attack. It isn't going to result in Muslims being single out for special protection, nor is it going to decrease protection for any other groups.

It seems pretty innocuous, really.

Boru

[Mr Greene]

I presume you would prefer something like the Equality Act.