4 Step Proof for God

[Epimethean]

The hive mind was strong in him.

[Minimalist]

This moron shows up periodically at Jesus Never Existed.

He's like herpes. Once or twice a year he breaks out of whatever cage they keep him in.

[Darth]

I had hoped he would mention my avatar as the more fundamentalist Christians usually do, and the fact that he didn't makes me wonder whether he was a Poe.

I too felt he was a poe, though not cause of your avatar

[The Grand Nudger]

The first two steps in the process, meh, why not, I'll give them to you. Even so, they don't confirm god, much less any particular god.

"If evolution is real then a monster should jump out of this jar of peanut butter right now" sort of thing. The conclusion does not follow the premise.

The third step.....is just a bare statement.

The fourth, well, you already know the problem with the 4th step don't you.

[MilesTailsPrower]

---

The New 4 Step Proof for God of the Bible

Infinite Regress is Impossible

1. We observe trillions and trillions of cause and effects in nature, and no hard evidence something comes from nothing, which is an overwhelming preponderance of evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. If there was an infinite regress you would have happened already having had an eternity do so. And you would never have existed because the past would continue to go on for eternity never reaching this point. As you can see, infinite regress in all its varieties (e.g. cycles, mutiverses) is inherently contradictory and therefore, false.

Something Can't Come From Nothing

2. Something can't come from nothing (non-existence) either, because that which does not exist can't cause anything. Nothing always leaves nothing from nothing. Energy can be neither created nor destroyed. It can only change forms. In any process in an isolated system, the total energy remains the same. Since that which does not exist has no energy, it cannot produce a singularity for the universe. Many times I have heard atheists say, "The properties of the universe are different from the whole, so the composition doesn't abide in cause and effect when it was brought into being." Of course, this is doublespeak because for something to be "brought into being" requires a cause.

A Mind is Needed to Create a Mind

3. Since nature can't always have existed nor start up from nothing, there must exist that which is outside of nature, that is, outside of time and space which always existed. This is whom we call the uncreated Creator. If you want to compare an always existing timeless singularity to the uncreated Creator, simply observe what we know that that which doesn't have a mind, will, emotion, conscience, intuition, or self-consciousness can't produce that which does. The lesser can never produce the greater. There has not even been enough interatomic interactions in the history of the universe to be able to do so. If you claim time is needed to bring about this universe from a singularity but the singularity has no time then this universe would never have existed if a causeless singularity existed.

The Resurrection Proves Jesus is God

4. Now that we know the uncreated Creator exists, we can compare. A God who is accessible and personal is better than one that is not. Only in Christianity do we find God enters His creation and dies for the sins of the world and proves He is our Creator by resurrecting Himself from the dead which can only occur supernaturally. Since almost all skeptical scholars concede for good reasons the disciples truly believed they saw Jesus alive from the dead in various group settings and there are no naturalistic explanations that can account for the origin of the disciples' beliefs (having exhausted them all), we should submit ourselves to this evidence, because if a person doesn't, they will surely go to Hell according to Jesus our Creator.

---

Are you kidding me? Please come up with a decent argument, god didn't make us we made god.

[Minimalist]

Something Can't Come From Nothing

Except their stupid fucking god. The shitheads make an exception for him which fucks their argument but such trivialities are lost on "the saved."

[The Grand Nudger]

But but but...haven't you seen Kalam?

Speaking of arguments...I have a new favorite..the TANG...a parody of TAG..which is either true, or invalidates TAG....all the while shifting the statistical odds to 66% chance of non-existence (within the confines of the argument of course).

For the record, I'm with you Min, evidence...I do however appreciate apologetics and counter-apologetics as a spectator sport.

[diffidus]

---

The New 4 Step Proof for God of the Bible

Infinite Regress is Impossible

1. We observe trillions and trillions of cause and effects in nature, and no hard evidence something comes from nothing, which is an overwhelming preponderance of evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. If there was an infinite regress you would have happened already having had an eternity do so. And you would never have existed because the past would continue to go on for eternity never reaching this point. As you can see, infinite regress in all its varieties (e.g. cycles, mutiverses) is inherently contradictory and therefore, false.

Something Can't Come From Nothing

2. Something can't come from nothing (non-existence) either, because that which does not exist can't cause anything. Nothing always leaves nothing from nothing. Energy can be neither created nor destroyed. It can only change forms. In any process in an isolated system, the total energy remains the same. Since that which does not exist has no energy, it cannot produce a singularity for the universe. Many times I have heard atheists say, "The properties of the universe are different from the whole, so the composition doesn't abide in cause and effect when it was brought into being." Of course, this is doublespeak because for something to be "brought into being" requires a cause.

A Mind is Needed to Create a Mind

3. Since nature can't always have existed nor start up from nothing, there must exist that which is outside of nature, that is, outside of time and space which always existed. This is whom we call the uncreated Creator. If you want to compare an always existing timeless singularity to the uncreated Creator, simply observe what we know that that which doesn't have a mind, will, emotion, conscience, intuition, or self-consciousness can't produce that which does. The lesser can never produce the greater. There has not even been enough interatomic interactions in the history of the universe to be able to do so. If you claim time is needed to bring about this universe from a singularity but the singularity has no time then this universe would never have existed if a causeless singularity existed.

The Resurrection Proves Jesus is God

4. Now that we know the uncreated Creator exists, we can compare. A God who is accessible and personal is better than one that is not. Only in Christianity do we find God enters His creation and dies for the sins of the world and proves He is our Creator by resurrecting Himself from the dead which can only occur supernaturally. Since almost all skeptical scholars concede for good reasons the disciples truly believed they saw Jesus alive from the dead in various group settings and there are no naturalistic explanations that can account for the origin of the disciples' beliefs (having exhausted them all), we should submit ourselves to this evidence, because if a person doesn't, they will surely go to Hell according to Jesus our Creator.

---

Diffidus

1. Infinite regression is impossible - Not true. Consider the real number 2.536 on a line that extends +/- infinity. The number is unique and exists nowhere else on the line. Now imagine a timeline and your presence is a unique existence on the timeline. There is absolutely no reason for you to have existed before or in the future. Just like the real number, you have a unique place in an infinity of time.

2. Something cannot be created from nothing - Not true see virtual particles in physics.

3. The universe could be infinite - see 1

4. This doesn't follow from anything!

[Doubting Thomas]

Jumping in way late... been busy so haven't had much of a chance to check in here lately.

I love how Christians love to point out that "something can't be created from nothing" but then claim that their god magically poofed the entire universe into existence from nothing. Even if matter can't be created from nothing, it doesn't prove their god real nor proves that atheism is an invalid stance to take. It kind of goes along side their argument that "the universe couldn't have always existed, everything has to have a beginning." Except God, of course, who always existed. I guess if you're going to allow special pleading, then there's absolutely nothing science can prove and God can do everything, and it's all proof God exists and wants us to persecute gays.

[The Grand Nudger]

LOL, Thomas, you may appreciate uncyclopedias article on the Westboro Baptist VChurch, which I've posted elsewhere. I'll let you google it though. Always something personally rewarding in the journey to hilarity.