Subjective Morals and Societal Whims

[Harry Nevis]

Sad there is no serious discussion here.

Sad that you're just another blind, dickhead christian.  But I'll get over it.

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There are no Christian pedophiles, but lots of atheist pedophiles.

So you've renounced christianity?

[Pat Mustard]

(As you may recall, the point that the OP made that I took issue with was that a naturalist worldview could not account for morality.  It can, and it appears that you think so as well.)

Personally, I think it only takes you halfway there. Natural reasoning can only go so far.

Takes you a lot fucking further than your preferred method of "I believe goddidit, therefore godmustofdoneit", Wooters.

[Cyberman]

Exactly how do the first 4 have any moral value?

Better yet, which commandments? The ones mentioned in the bible as the ten commandments are most emphatically not the ten commandments referred to by any christian sect.

Not to mention the other six hundred and three that xtians tend to forget about.

[Divinity]

Morality is subjective. Yes, that means people can argue pedophilia and even murder aren't wrong. But if morality were objective, everyone would agree on the same fucking morality. But you don't even see that within people of the same fucking religion.

Thank fuck it is, because if morality were unchanging we'd still have slavery, still stone homosexuals to death, and still burn people who we think are 'witches'. So thank fuck morality is subjective.

[Zenith]

Morality is subjective.  Yes, that means people can argue pedophilia and even murder aren't wrong.  But if morality were objective, everyone would agree on the same fucking morality.  But you don't even see that within people of the same fucking religion.

Thank fuck it is, because if morality were unchanging we'd still have slavery, still stone homosexuals to death, and still burn people who we think are 'witches'.  So thank fuck morality is subjective.

There is, however, something about morality that we (human beings) continue to improve upon: As the times passes, science develops, our knowledge and understanding about human beings increases, we learn better about the effects of our actions upon our brethren. Human beings do not normally desire to do harm to their own brethren, and nature also endowed us with empathy (which is not human-only). And more, we realise that, since we live together in large communities, it profits us best if we also tend to our community, not only to our own individual needs - that's how societies formed in the first place. All these, I believe, make us moral people.

[Mister Agenda]

There are no Christian pedophiles, but lots of atheist pedophiles. Counting them in prison doesn't change that fact.

Apparently not even facts can change your facts.

Understand the point. In atheism all there is is nature. Nature produces pedophilia. Since your world-view of naturalism leads to pedophilia and pedophilia is always wrong then atheism is wrong. Find another faith that is evidentially proven to be true like Christianity.

There isn't anything in atheism except not believing in any gods. There isn't anything in theism except believing at least one is real. There isn't anything else 'in' atheism or theism but that. Christianity is not theism. An Aztec priest and a Hindu call center worker are as theist as you.

Atheism does not entail a world-view of naturalism because the only thing it entails is not believing any god or God is actually real. There are atheists who believe in astrology, ghosts, and/or reincarnation. Atheism is compatible with any world view that does not require believing that a god or God is real. And there is an important distinction between methodological naturalism and metaphysical naturalism; and I think you'll find a lot more western atheists in the former camp than the latter.

Granting that nature produces pedophilia, it does not follow that pedophilia is good. That is called the naturalistic fallacy, that something being natural makes it good. Only moral agents can be moral or immoral, and nature is not a moral agent. If you accept as axiomatic that it's a good idea to take good care of our children to help them become productive and stable adults, because it would be really nice to live in a world where far fewer children are sexually traumatized by adult rapists, then pedophilia being acted upon being bad is an easy conclusion to reach. I don't need a commandment to justify not being a pedophile, not that there is such a commandment.

Atheism is not a faith. Neither is theism. Both are opinions on the topic of whether or not any gods are actually real. They are states of mind: the state of not holding belief in a deity or the state of holding belief in a deity. An atheist can be a methodological naturalist, a non-deistic Buddhist, a cultural Christian, a Unitarian, a communist, a libertarian, a humanist, even a Raellian, and so on. It's no more odd than theists being Christians, Muslims, Hindus, animists, or even irreligious, and so on. Atheists are people who share one opinion on one topic, just like theists. We can differ in every other respect, just like theists.

Maybe you need to watch a greater variety of videos.

[Divinity]

Wait.. did someone seriously fucking suggest there are no Christian Pedophiles?

Did someone seriously fucking say that? Have they been living in a cave? Catholic Priests say hello.

[Mister Agenda]

You know how that trick works: if a Christian priest or pastor is revealed as a pedophile, then obviously they were secretly an atheist all along. Probably with a twirly moustache and babies in the fridge.

[vorlon13]

Well, theologically, that would be equating pedophilia with blaspheming the Holy Spirit. So, that is a no go right off the bat. Jesus, in fact, did die to redeem pedo CHRISTIANS too. Suggesting otherwise would, in fact, be heresy.

[Zenith]

 Jesus, in fact, did die to redeem pedo CHRISTIANS too.  Suggesting otherwise would, in fact, be heresy.

"Let the children come to me." - I hope he meant something else.