Islam versus Judaism

[KerimF]

Please note that this thread is not about Mohammad’s and Moses’ gods but about their main rules and teachings which are supposed to be followed by Muslims and Jews respectively.

Therefore, it is as a general knowledge of what I knew about these two religions while being a neutral observer.
I suppose that most atheists here could be rather neutral observers too and help me update what I will say.

On the big picture, Islam is actually an Arabic version of Judaism.

Far from rituals, the essence of Islam’s commandments/teachings/stories coincides with the ones of Judaism.
And the believers in these two religions have to deny most of what Jesus says/teaches (as written on the today’s Gospel). I like adding that even most Christians (mainly their various leaders) around the world have to also ignore (or not to take seriously) many of Jesus teachings under the pretext they are about unpractical ideals or beyond human perception.

[1] As you know, both Muslims and Jews are told that the universe is created by One Supernatural Supreme Ruler of a Heavenly Kingdom; much like a great king on earth who looks to be glorified by his servants while they follow/obey his rules.
 
[2] And, both Muslims and Jews are supposed to fear their god. After all, in every earthly kingdom, followers/servants/slaves should fear the wrath of their powerful king.
 
[3] Also, the famous story of ‘Adam & Eve’ (one of many others) that was addressed, in the first place, to the ‘kids of humanity’ (many centuries ago) has to be accepted on these days, also by both believers, as being real ; even after all discoveries in Biology made by the ‘adults of humanity’.
 
I think, it is better to stop here and hear your views about what I wrote.
Please remember that I am always glad hearing negative comments if serious.
Thank you.

[FatAndFaithless]

Well, Christianity just cribs off of Judaism and adds some more stuff using the Torah as a basis. Then Islam cribs off of Judaism and Christianity and adds more stuff using the Torah and the rest of the Bible as a basis. It's not really surprising that they have a lot of things common, especially the old origin stories. Don't forget, Jesus is a power player in Islam too, they just say he wasn't the son of God and wasn't crucified.

[vorlon13]

Abraham started something that was ESPECIALLY prone to mutating, or schisms, if that is the better term for religio stuff.

Seems like if God had indeed imbued Abraham with the One True Faith, it might have persisted . . . . .

[Whateverist]

Please note that this thread is not about Mohammad’s and Moses’ gods but about their main rules and teachings which are supposed to be followed by Muslims and Jews respectively.

Therefore, it is as a general knowledge of what I knew about these two religions while being a neutral observer.
I suppose that most atheists here could be rather neutral observers too and help me update what I will say.

On the big picture, Islam is actually an Arabic version of Judaism.

Far from rituals, the essence of Islam’s commandments/teachings/stories coincides with the ones of Judaism.
And the believers in these two religions have to deny most of what Jesus says/teaches (as written on the today’s Gospel). I like adding that even most Christians (mainly their various leaders) around the world have to also ignore (or not to take seriously) many of Jesus teachings under the pretext they are about unpractical ideals or beyond human perception.

[1] As you know, both Muslims and Jews are told that the universe is created by One Supernatural Supreme Ruler of a Heavenly Kingdom; much like a great king on earth who looks to be glorified by his servants while they follow/obey his rules.
 
[2] And, both Muslims and Jews are supposed to fear their god. After all, in every earthly kingdom, followers/servants/slaves should fear the wrath of their powerful king.
 
[3] Also, the famous story of ‘Adam & Eve’ (one of many others) that was addressed, in the first place, to the ‘kids of humanity’ (many centuries ago) has to be accepted on these days, also by both believers, as being real ; even after all discoveries in Biology made by the ‘adults of humanity’.
 
I think, it is better to stop here and hear your views about what I wrote.
Please remember that I am always glad hearing negative comments if serious.
Thank you.

I am not an expert on any of the three Abrahamic religions but it has been my perception that jews more often emphasize living a good life over a future reward in an afterlife.  It seems that you see Islam and Judaism as being the most alike, but I'm not seeing that.

Can you say more about your own religious affiliation, if any?

[KerimF]

Well, Christianity just cribs off of Judaism and adds some more stuff using the Torah as a basis. Then Islam cribs off of Judaism and Christianity and adds more stuff using the Torah and the rest of the Bible as a basis.  It's not really surprising that they have a lot of things common, especially the old origin stories.  Don't forget, Jesus is a power player in Islam too, they just say he wasn't the son of God and wasn't crucified.

Most of what you said is indeed right.

I was born in a Catholic family. My schools were Catholic French ones (in Aleppo city, Syria, where I was born, more than 6 decades ago, and still live in).
But when I was about 16, I was real surprised by discovering that most teachings of my priests and of every well-defined Christian Church I heard of ignore many of what Jesus says (as written on my Catholic Arabic Gospel), and some of them even oppose his teachings in a clever way.

In brief, I discovered since long that the today's Christianity is just about the man-made systems that are created in the name of Jesus while they have nothing to do with the essence of his teachings (as they are written on the today's Gospel). But I am afraid that exploring now how this can happen (and why) would be off topic.

---

Abraham started something that was ESPECIALLY prone to mutating, or schisms, if that is the better term for religio stuff.

Seems like if God had indeed imbued Abraham with the One True Faith, it might have persisted . . .  . .

For a few men to control many other ones, different versions of the Absolute (in religions and politics) had to be created to let people gather in groups that each of them could be guided by its own Absolute (actually by the representatives of their Absolute). It is another clever trick that has worked always in the human jungle.

In reality, any truth is always relative to the observer; much like the Relativity in modern physics that most people on earth couldn't grasp well yet

[Minimalist]

Well, Christianity just cribs off of Judaism and adds some more stuff using the Torah as a basis.

And Judaism cribbed off of Zoroastrianism and before that from the Canaanite pantheon.  Throw in some Hellenistic philosophy and some Roman desire for order and you get jesusism. 

It's all a crock.

[Aliza]

Please note that this thread is not about Mohammad’s and Moses’ gods but about their main rules and teachings which are supposed to be followed by Muslims and Jews respectively.

Therefore, it is as a general knowledge of what I knew about these two religions while being a neutral observer.
I suppose that most atheists here could be rather neutral observers too and help me update what I will say.

On the big picture, Islam is actually an Arabic version of Judaism.

Far from rituals, the essence of Islam’s commandments/teachings/stories coincides with the ones of Judaism.
And the believers in these two religions have to deny most of what Jesus says/teaches (as written on the today’s Gospel). I like adding that even most Christians (mainly their various leaders) around the world have to also ignore (or not to take seriously) many of Jesus teachings under the pretext they are about unpractical ideals or beyond human perception.

[1] As you know, both Muslims and Jews are told that the universe is created by One Supernatural Supreme Ruler of a Heavenly Kingdom; much like a great king on earth who looks to be glorified by his servants while they follow/obey his rules.
 
[2] And, both Muslims and Jews are supposed to fear their god. After all, in every earthly kingdom, followers/servants/slaves should fear the wrath of their powerful king.
 
[3] Also, the famous story of ‘Adam & Eve’ (one of many others) that was addressed, in the first place, to the ‘kids of humanity’ (many centuries ago) has to be accepted on these days, also by both believers, as being real ; even after all discoveries in Biology made by the ‘adults of humanity’.
 
I think, it is better to stop here and hear your views about what I wrote.
Please remember that I am always glad hearing negative comments if serious.
Thank you.

[1] Jews do believe that the universe was created by G-d, but we don't believe that G-d must be glorified. While we do believe that understanding what G-d is a benefit to the person, this is in no way a requirement. Glorifying G-d just sounds very goyish to me. I suppose a Jew's way of glorifying G-d would just be not to fuck people over in business and not to steal things from others, etc. 

[2] .... Eh, not exactly. The word "fear" doesn't quite translate the same here. Jews believe that we have a contract with G-d (this is why we're all lawyers. We love contracts.) If we do certain things, good things will happen. If we do other things, bad things will happen. We don't fear that G-d will act outside of the parameters of the contract. We more or less respect G-d and respect that G-d will act within the agreed upon terms. 

[3] Most definitely not. Judaism teaches that as new facts come in, we must reexamine our understanding of Torah. We do have a few nutcases who hold onto an antiquated view, but they're in the extreme minority. (I have met one in my personal life, and I've heard one talking about this view on YouTube, so I know that they exist.) Judaism largely holds to evolution and the big-bang, and I'm including many religious, black-hat sects in this generalization. Some Rabbis began writing about 900 years ago that the universe could be as old as 15B years, and Maimonides said in the late 1100's that as new facts come in, we have to take a closer look at how we translated Torah if those facts don't jive with our previous understanding. 

---

I am not an expert on any of the three Abrahamic religions but it has been my perception that jews more often emphasize living a good life over a future reward in an afterlife.  It seems that you see Islam and Judaism as being the most alike, but I'm not seeing that.

Can you say more about your own religious affiliation, if any?

Bingo. Ultimately, Judaism is not a book about science or the origins of the universe. It's a book about how Jews should live their lives.

[KerimF]

Please note that this thread is not about Mohammad’s and Moses’ gods but about their main rules and teachings which are supposed to be followed by Muslims and Jews respectively.

Therefore, it is as a general knowledge of what I knew about these two religions while being a neutral observer.
I suppose that most atheists here could be rather neutral observers too and help me update what I will say.

On the big picture, Islam is actually an Arabic version of Judaism.

Far from rituals, the essence of Islam’s commandments/teachings/stories coincides with the ones of Judaism.
And the believers in these two religions have to deny most of what Jesus says/teaches (as written on the today’s Gospel). I like adding that even most Christians (mainly their various leaders) around the world have to also ignore (or not to take seriously) many of Jesus teachings under the pretext they are about unpractical ideals or beyond human perception.

[1] As you know, both Muslims and Jews are told that the universe is created by One Supernatural Supreme Ruler of a Heavenly Kingdom; much like a great king on earth who looks to be glorified by his servants while they follow/obey his rules.
 
[2] And, both Muslims and Jews are supposed to fear their god. After all, in every earthly kingdom, followers/servants/slaves should fear the wrath of their powerful king.
 
[3] Also, the famous story of ‘Adam & Eve’ (one of many others) that was addressed, in the first place, to the ‘kids of humanity’ (many centuries ago) has to be accepted on these days, also by both believers, as being real ; even after all discoveries in Biology made by the ‘adults of humanity’.
 
I think, it is better to stop here and hear your views about what I wrote.
Please remember that I am always glad hearing negative comments if serious.
Thank you.

I am not an expert on any of the three Abrahamic religions but it has been my perception that jews more often emphasize living a good life over a future reward in an afterlife.  It seems that you see Islam and Judaism as being the most alike, but I'm not seeing that.

Can you say more about your own religious affiliation, if any?

Thank you for this interesting remark. Me too, I am not expert in Judaism. The few Jewish friends I had before they left for Israel didn't like talking about their religion. I think they have their good reasons. After all, I don't expect any other man to be as free and independent as I am.
  
I also tried learning about the point you mentioned above from Jews I met (as they claimed) on the internet. But again, I couldn't get clear answers.

For instance, what about the notion of 'Hell' as a torture place?
I have the impression that it was known as God's punishment by Jews before Jesus time, do you have any idea?


About my religion, I don't know what name I can call it because it has one member, me
And I don't know if I can refer to it as a religion because what I know, though not about my human living flesh, is based on reason not faith. And even if the entire world is convinced about a certain idea, said scientific and not religious, I may have my good reasons not to add it in my personal set of knowledge.

But truth be said, there is one person who already agreed with me since very long (far past) on all what I discovered about my being and the 'real' world. So, without this person, I would have no choice but seeing myself a weird being who was brought into life by mistake

---

Well, Christianity just cribs off of Judaism and adds some more stuff using the Torah as a basis.

And Judaism cribbed off of Zoroastrianism and before that from the Canaanite pantheon.  Throw in some Hellenistic philosophy and some Roman desire for order and you get jesusism. 

It's all a crock.

Anyway, where there are men, one should expect seeing a few of them on top (deceivers, if not worse) and the rest on bottom (followers).

And since a few centuries, it became possible to fool most people around the world in the name of politics and even science instead of a certain deity.

As a result,, as theists are happy with the stories they were made to believe by so-called miracles, most ordinary people are also very happy now while they hear various stories (political and scientific) they were made to believe via their electrical monitors. Therefore, the unhappy ones are those who didn't decide yet to which camp it is better for them to join

[Whateverist]

I am not an expert on any of the three Abrahamic religions but it has been my perception that jews more often emphasize living a good life over a future reward in an afterlife.  It seems that you see Islam and Judaism as being the most alike, but I'm not seeing that.

Can you say more about your own religious affiliation, if any?

Thank you for this interesting remark. Me too, I am not expert in Judaism. The few Jewish friends I had before they left for Israel didn't like talking about their religion. I think they have their good reasons. After all, I don't expect any other man to be as free and independent as I am.
  
I also tried learning about the point you mentioned above from Jews I met (as they claimed) on the internet. But again, I couldn't get clear answers.

For instance, what about the notion of 'Hell' as a torture place?
I have the impression that it was known as God's punishment by Jews before Jesus time, do you have any idea?


About my religion, I don't know what name I can call it because it has one member, me
And I don't know if I can refer to it as a religion because what I know, though not about my human living flesh, is based on reason not faith. And even if the entire world is convinced about a certain idea, said scientific and not religious, I may have my good reasons not to add it in my personal set of knowledge.

But truth be said, there is one person who already agreed with me since very long (far past) on all what I discovered about my being and the 'real' world. So, without this person, I would have no choice but seeing myself a weird being who was brought into life by mistake

---

And Judaism cribbed off of Zoroastrianism and before that from the Canaanite pantheon.  Throw in some Hellenistic philosophy and some Roman desire for order and you get jesusism. 

It's all a crock.

Anyway, where there are men, one should expect seeing a few of them on top (deceivers, if not worse) and the rest on bottom (followers).

And since a few centuries, it became possible to fool most people around the world in the name of politics and even science instead of a certain deity.

As a result,, as theists are happy with the stories they were made to believe by so-called miracles, most ordinary people are also very happy now while they hear various stories (political and scientific) they were made to believe via their electrical monitors. Therefore, the unhappy ones are those who didn't decide yet to which camp it is better for them to join

I've had a very long and satisfying discussion with Aliza who is a religious but not a fundamentalist jew on another site.  I messaged her there to see if she would be interested in this thread of yours.  I value her insight both for her knowledge base and for her integrity as an honest communicator.  If you have any questions for her about Judaism I suggest you take advantage of this golden opportunity.  I see she has already responded to you.  Have fun.

[KerimF]

Please note that this thread is not about Mohammad’s and Moses’ gods but about their main rules and teachings which are supposed to be followed by Muslims and Jews respectively.

Therefore, it is as a general knowledge of what I knew about these two religions while being a neutral observer.
I suppose that most atheists here could be rather neutral observers too and help me update what I will say.

On the big picture, Islam is actually an Arabic version of Judaism.

Far from rituals, the essence of Islam’s commandments/teachings/stories coincides with the ones of Judaism.
And the believers in these two religions have to deny most of what Jesus says/teaches (as written on the today’s Gospel). I like adding that even most Christians (mainly their various leaders) around the world have to also ignore (or not to take seriously) many of Jesus teachings under the pretext they are about unpractical ideals or beyond human perception.

[1] As you know, both Muslims and Jews are told that the universe is created by One Supernatural Supreme Ruler of a Heavenly Kingdom; much like a great king on earth who looks to be glorified by his servants while they follow/obey his rules.
 
[2] And, both Muslims and Jews are supposed to fear their god. After all, in every earthly kingdom, followers/servants/slaves should fear the wrath of their powerful king.
 
[3] Also, the famous story of ‘Adam & Eve’ (one of many others) that was addressed, in the first place, to the ‘kids of humanity’ (many centuries ago) has to be accepted on these days, also by both believers, as being real ; even after all discoveries in Biology made by the ‘adults of humanity’.
 
I think, it is better to stop here and hear your views about what I wrote.
Please remember that I am always glad hearing negative comments if serious.
Thank you.

[1] Jews do believe that the universe was created by G-d, but we don't believe that G-d must be glorified. While we do believe that understanding what G-d is a benefit to the person, this is in no way a requirement. Glorifying G-d just sounds very goyish to me. I suppose a Jew's way of glorifying G-d would just be not to fuck people over in business and not to steal things from others, etc. 

[2] .... Eh, not exactly. The word "fear" doesn't quite translate the same here. Jews believe that we have a contract with G-d (this is why we're all lawyers. We love contracts.) If we do certain things, good things will happen. If we do other things, bad things will happen. We don't fear that G-d will act outside of the parameters of the contract. We more or less respect G-d and respect that G-d will act within the agreed upon terms. 

[3] Most definitely not. Judaism teaches that as new facts come in, we must reexamine our understanding of Torah. We do have a few nutcases who hold onto an antiquated view, but they're in the extreme minority. (I have met one in my personal life, and I've heard one talking about this view on YouTube, so I know that they exist.) Judaism largely holds to evolution and the big-bang, and I'm including many religious, black-hat sects in this generalization. Some Rabbis began writing about 900 years ago that the universe could be as old as 15B years, and Maimonides said in the late 1100's that as new facts come in, we have to take a closer look at how we translated Torah if those facts don't jive with our previous understanding. 

First, I like to thank you for the valuable details.

And you did summarise them all in a simple clear statement:
"Judaism is not a book about science or the origins of the universe. It's a book about how Jews should live their lives."

On my side, I see the evolution stages of the human race much like the evolution stages of my own being (hence, of any other human).
My existence started from two living tiny cells. When they combined, they became no more two living cells but just one, me (or what will end up to be me). During about 9 months, this cell had to be evolved rather quickly by following well defined instructions which are inherited gradually since many millions, if not billions, of years (and not necessarily on earth only). And when I was born, this cell became finally the complex being known as human. But I needed a few years too before I started perceiving the various parts of my body. During this time, my parents took care of me without expecting I can help myself in any way. But after that, they felt the need to teach me what is good to my body and what could hurt it as well. But being just a kid, they had to present me simple versions of whatever I liked to ask about. And while I was growing they needed to have sort of mutual contracts with me concerning how to live properly, based on their knowledge and experience. They did it to give me a chance to become a healthy adult with enough knowledge and expertise to depend on myself for the rest of my life and to live, therefore, my own priorities (which are closely related to the nature I was made of).

So to me in the least, from Moses to Jesus is much like the period of time when I was a conscious kid who needed the guidance of my parents and learning the basics of science in a simple way even if these basics will be found being wrong later. Here is a quick example:
I know now that "Two parallels intersect at infinity" which is important in perspective geometry. But at school, they had to tell me first a simpler definition: "Two straights are said parallels if they don't intersect". Of course, this simple definition ceased to be valid when I started learning space geometry, unless "and are on the same plane" is added to it. Did my school teachers lie? Should the first two incomplete definitions be of any importance to me now? But, these two elementary definitions are always important to teach kids.

This is why I used on my first post the expressions "kids of humanity" then "adults of humanity". But this is just how I personally see things.
For instance, Islam is just a social political system created by a clever man in the name of a god (who knows Arabic only, actually its ancient version) in order to take over the power that was in the hands of the elders of his tribe "Kuraish". He replaced the holy statues with holy words (Arabic words of course), claimed being inspired by Allah (this reminds me how Pharaohs were also inspired by certain gods about how to rule their people).