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RE: Morality from the ground up
August 1, 2017 at 2:34 pm
(This post was last modified: August 1, 2017 at 2:39 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Contractarian well being goes all the way back to Hobbes.
(though it's hardly an original idea in his case either)
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Morality from the ground up
August 1, 2017 at 2:40 pm
Oh yeah? Well...your mom goes all the way back to Hobbes. 😋
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
Wiser words were never spoken.
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RE: Morality from the ground up
August 1, 2017 at 2:45 pm
(This post was last modified: August 1, 2017 at 2:48 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
LOL. I know, I know..I just think it's useful to note that there's no need to build a morality from the ground up..that w already have one, and have always had one. Anytime someone thinks to themselves "oh, look, we have a secular morality now!"..well, no, there was a secular morality five hundred years ago and five thousand. You can find contractarian well being in the vedas, or in the stoics, you can find it in the havamal, you can find it in stories about the great spider or the fox. There has never been a time or a socieity in which we didn't possess a morality that -wasn't- based on superstition but upon the specifics and circumstances of our everyday lives. Sure, for the majority of that time, and even today, they had to live alongside or suffused in superstitious thinking (one of the great values of superstitious thinking has been a s a vehicle for things that are decidedly -not- an issue of superstition)..but it's always been there, with us, within us.
No one is (or needs be) waiting on a great philosopher to come and gift us with a new morality. That work was done before we ever wrote down the first word. Those thinkers of the past were more describing what we do than coming up with a manufactured system.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Morality from the ground up
August 1, 2017 at 3:30 pm
(This post was last modified: August 1, 2017 at 3:31 pm by brewer.)
(August 1, 2017 at 2:31 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: I think Dillahunty takes a pretty good crack at it with 'well being'.
Man oh man did my brain misread that word.
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental.
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RE: Morality from the ground up
August 1, 2017 at 5:08 pm
(July 31, 2017 at 10:28 pm)bennyboy Wrote: Is it possible to make a moral system without reference to instinct or to superstition, but rooted in rational principles? How might we go about doing that?
Maybe, but no one has yet fully succeeded in doing so. I'd say Aristotle's Nichomachean Ethics comes the closest. Even then, he relies on a primal universal desire for happiness. Maybe Seneca or Marcus Arelius.
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RE: Morality from the ground up
August 1, 2017 at 7:46 pm
At the most elemental, I'd say morality is a system of right action. But rightness implies a goal-- if an action serves that goal, it's right; if it doesn't it isn't. Happiness seems to be one. But whose happiness? That of humans? All living things? The mind boggles.
It seems then that morality is really the language of reconciling feelings about actions: I don't like when I'm hurt, and you say you don't either, so let's make a rule that nobody should be allowed to hurt others.
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RE: Morality from the ground up
August 1, 2017 at 8:32 pm
It is the God given right for Muslims, Christians, etc to spread the word of their respective sky fairies and eventually take over the world. What is right and correct for them can never be the same as everyone else whilst religions exist.
It is their supernatural moral right! Hehehe
Good luck establishing any sort of common base to start from.
The basis for morality is corrupt at its core in these religious texts. True change will only come by changing these.
No God, No fear.
Know God, Know fear.
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RE: Morality from the ground up
August 1, 2017 at 8:32 pm
More of Neo's epic non answer to morality . God you suck at this Neo . I thought your appeal to the Nazi's sucked.
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.
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RE: Morality from the ground up
August 1, 2017 at 9:01 pm
(This post was last modified: August 1, 2017 at 9:05 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(August 1, 2017 at 7:46 pm)bennyboy Wrote: At the most elemental, I'd say morality is a system of right action. But rightness implies a goal-- if an action serves that goal, it's right; if it doesn't it isn't. Happiness seems to be one. But whose happiness? That of humans? All living things? The mind boggles. Does it? Why? You do this all day everyday without thinking about it. When's the last time you kicked a person -or- a dog? You're expressing frustration at a simple concept learned so well and so early that we take it for granted as the background of our interactions.
Quote:It seems then that morality is really the language of reconciling feelings about actions: I don't like when I'm hurt, and you say you don't either, so let's make a rule that nobody should be allowed to hurt others.
That's known as rational self interest. Isn't that exactly what you asked for? "Nobody hurt me" becomes "nobody should hurt others"..because, rationally, we recognize that we are the others to everyone else.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Morality from the ground up
August 1, 2017 at 10:53 pm
Tell you what .. if you don't fuck with me or my stuff, I'll return the favor. We good? (That wasn't so hard.)
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