Is Accepting Christian Evidence Special Pleading?

[Edwardo Piet]

It was the examiners own personal opinion that the light was supernatural, in other words THERE WAS NO EXPLANATION SCIENTIFIC OR OTHERWISE FOR WHY THE LIGHT WAS THERE.

The in caps is 1. Wholly irrelevant. 2. A perfect example of the Argument from Ignorance.

It's like if person A says that X is not necessarily a ghost and person B says "It has to be a ghost because: WHAT ELSE COULD IT HAVE BEEN?!"

Massive fallacy Huggy. Massive fallacy. Your mind is buggy, Huggy. Your mind is buggy, Buggy Huggy.

[Huggy Bear]

Huggy, I just read in the Wikipedia article on Branham that he taught -- among other *ahem* interesting things -- that Eve and the serpent had intercourse and their union produced Cain. This sounds suspiciously close to some similar nuttery you've spewed here before. Is Branham your source for your interpretation of the garden tale?

That "interpretation" is the traditional position found in the Talmud...

From a Jewish website
https://jwa.org/encyclopedia/article/eve...nd-aggadah

According to another tradition, the serpent did indeed engage in intercourse with Eve, who became pregnant and gave birth to Cain (see below, “Now the Man Knew His Wife Eve”).

The Bible states that 'Cain was of (descended from) the wicked one', and furthermore Cain is not included in the Genealogy of Adam.

[Minimalist]

Marilyn Hickey is a phony money-grubbing cunt who gets rich off of shitheads like you, Huggy.

http://www.forgottenword.org/hickey.html


I mean, if you want to support charlatans go right ahead, idiot.  It's your money.  But please stop insulting everybody's intelligence with this faith-healing horseshit.

Be a moron on your own time.

I don't agree with Marilyn Hickey on a personal level, how she runs her organization does not mean she is lying about what she experienced, especially when you include all the corroborating evidence.

Nice try though...

Like I said, I'm glad she's one of yours and not one of us.  Ask her to cure your rampant gullibility.

2. sir arthur conan doyle was a brilliant writer. But also a paranormalist quack .Who was tricked countless times into believing rubbish. So turning to him for epistemological advice is not a great move.

Hey, he thinks a dead jew came back to life and flew up to heaven.  Conan Doyle is small potatoes compared to that!

[Astreja]

There is one major flaw with your theory (besides the fact that it's pure speculation), It ignores the testimony of people the saw it with their own eyes...

Gullible it is, then.  Nothing that a decent stage magician couldn't have pulled off.

[Amarok]

There is one major flaw with your theory It ignores the testimony of people the saw it with their own eyes...

So you mean something an illusionist could pull off

(besides the fact that it's pure speculation)

Nope based on things we know that happen and are real . Your magic think is the only speculation here .

[Crossless2.0]

That "interpretation" is the traditional position found in the Talmud...

From a Jewish website
https://jwa.org/encyclopedia/article/eve...nd-aggadah

According to another tradition, the serpent did indeed engage in intercourse with Eve, who became pregnant and gave birth to Cain (see below, “Now the Man Knew His Wife Eve”).

The Bible states that 'Cain was of (descended from) the wicked one', and furthermore Cain is not included in the Genealogy of Adam.

Ok, interesting.

Unimportant nitpicking: There's no reason to place the word interpretation in quotation marks, since that's exactly what the Talmud is and does. And it's not the traditional position; it's a tradition, according to your own quote. 

Funny that you should place so much stock in the conclusions of a body of Rabbinic writings that clearly rejects the Christian interpretation of and beliefs about Messiah.

[Huggy Bear]

There is one major flaw with your theory (besides the fact that it's pure speculation), It ignores the testimony of people the saw it with their own eyes...

Gullible it is, then.  Nothing that a decent stage magician couldn't have pulled off.

For what purpose?

Let me get this straight, somehow we have a guy who pastors a church and worked a full time job because he refused to take an offering for 17 years of his ministering career, and being a single father on top of that (first wife died in her late teens - early 20's), but somehow found the time to practice magic on top of it all.

Hows that for critical thought...

  

I started to take up an offering, one time in my life. I guess you heard about it. I—I started to take an offering. We just got in such a fix, till I almost had to have. I—I had some debts, and I was working. I took my hat and poured out my paycheck, and we just couldn't make it. And I never did take an offering at the Tabernacle. I pastored seventeen years, without a penny. And I said to the wife, I said, "We, we've just got to. I'm going over and take an offering."

She said, "I'm going to watch you, see." See? She goes over and sits down.

    And that night, after… They're lovely people. Bless their hearts. I said, "I—I kind of hate to say this." I said, "I've been with you a long time. I never did ask you for anything," I said, "but I—I got some bills I got to meet. I need about six dollars." And I said, "I—I just haven't got it. I just haven't got it, and it's due," and I said, "Saturday. And I—I just haven't got it to pay." And I said, "If you all, any of you that have about a dime," I said, "if you would help a little on, I'd appreciate it." And—and everybody started to cry. There was an old woman sitting down there… And the deacon got up, and we didn't even have a collection plate, and I—I said, "You can get my hat." And went and got my hat.
 
   And I looked down there. And a little old sister is always praying for me, she had a… One of these old-fashion southern mother that had one of these little… the little pocketbooks that snaps at the top. She unsnapped that, and, oh, my! I looked at that. I couldn't a spent that for nothing. I said, "I—I was just teasing. I wanted to see what you was going to say. I didn't really mean that." I couldn't do it. That's the closest I ever come to taking an offering. See?
 
 63-1115 - The World Is Falling Apart
 Rev. William Marrion Branham

[Astreja]

Gullible it is, then.  Nothing that a decent stage magician couldn't have pulled off.

For what purpose?

Power and influence over others.

Let me get this straight, somehow we have a guy who pastors a church and worked a full time job because he refused to take an offering for 17 years of his ministering career, and being a single father on top of that (first wife died in her late teens - early 20's), but somehow found the time to practice magic on top of it all.

Hows that for critical thought...

Let's see -- I  work a full-time job, do upgrades to a 100-year-old house, take clarinet lessons, play woodwinds in multiple bands (2 rehearsals and 2 gigs from last Saturday to this coming Thursday alone), and still manage to travel, do photography, go to the symphony and ballet, read regularly, do a bit of gourmet cooking, go for an occasional hike, and get out to the local observatory and Astronomical Society meetings.  (Oh, and I'm looking for someone to tutor me in stage magic, which I've loved since I was a little kid.)  Consider your counter-argument pounded to a bloody pulp.

[Huggy Bear]

That "interpretation" is the traditional position found in the Talmud...

From a Jewish website
https://jwa.org/encyclopedia/article/eve...nd-aggadah


The Bible states that 'Cain was of (descended from) the wicked one', and furthermore Cain is not included in the Genealogy of Adam.

Ok, interesting.

Unimportant nitpicking: There's no reason to place the word interpretation in quotation marks, since that's exactly what the Talmud is and does. And it's not the traditional position; it's a tradition, according to your own quote. 

Funny that you should place so much stock in the conclusions of a body of Rabbinic writings that clearly rejects the Christian interpretation of and beliefs about Messiah.

Was it not Jews that laid the foundation for what we know today as Christianity? The fact that the Jewish religious establishment would reject the Messiah was always in the cards.

The stone that the builders rejected has now become the cornerstone. - Psalm 118:22

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For what purpose?

Power and influence over others.

Let me get this straight, somehow we have a guy who pastors a church and worked a full time job because he refused to take an offering for 17 years of his ministering career, and being a single father on top of that (first wife died in her late teens - early 20's), but somehow found the time to practice magic on top of it all.

Hows that for critical thought...

Let's see -- I  work a full-time job, do upgrades to a 100-year-old house, take clarinet lessons, play woodwinds in multiple bands (2 rehearsals and 2 gigs from last Saturday to this coming Thursday alone), and still manage to travel, do photography, go to the symphony and ballet, read regularly, do a bit of gourmet cooking, go for an occasional hike, and get out to the local observatory and Astronomical Society meetings.  (Oh, and I'm looking for someone to tutor me in stage magic, which I've loved since I was a little kid.)  Consider your counter-argument pounded to a bloody pulp.

I beg to differ seeing how your original point is completely speculative, so were making hypothetical arguments.

As for power and influence, did you not read the quote where he was trying to take an offering because he needed 6 dollars to pay a bill?

In the audio clip I posted, at around 5:46 Branham states that "this is another dimension"

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Carl Sagan on what encountering a being from a different dimension might be like.




So basically if a being that exists in another dimension were to visibly appear, you would only see it partially, and it would most likely appear as gibberish as Sagan demonstrates with the apple.

[vorlon13]

Mormons, are you serious? Do you think there is evidence to consider outside Joseph Smith's head?

Jospeh Smith was an eye witness to the miracle of the golden tablets, has second hand testimony from angels, and we have secondary evidence that Joseph Smith was indeed the author of the material -- that's something we don't have for any of the alleged authors of the bible, nobody can verify that 1 Peter was written by Peter.  You're treating the evidence of the religion of Mormonism according to a different standard than your own.  When Joseph Smith offers eye witness testimony, then it's all in his head.  When an anonymous author of the bible offers second hand testimony, why then it's "paleographic gold".  That's de facto an example of you special pleading the evidence of Christianity.  When you dismiss other religions for reasons that you don't equally apply to your own, that sure as hell is special pleading.  A similar argument could be made for Mohammed.

Nailed it, utterly nailed it.

Of course, you run a dreadful risk of successfully shilling for the damned Mormons. And if someone uses the same criteria evaluating 2000 year old Christer evidence and then the Mormonism files, the Mormon side will get the nod, actual witnesses and their statements, many of the witnesses have living descendants that we know of today, and their accounts are in mutual concordance. The folks evaluating the 2000 year old Jesus materials can only dream of finding a trove of materials as well vetted as the Mormon records.