Excuse your God

[drfuzzy]

God has a founder! That is what I have been saying!!! Thanks for having my back MK!

The reminder of God has a founder. God doesn't have a founder. Thank you for trying to understand.

Of course god has a founder.  It's the first con-artist that made some idiots believe that he talked to the sky-spirit who brought the rain.

[Simon Moon]

But what if the "reminder from God" is just a figment of our own or someone else's imagination?  How do we determine whether the founder and successors are authentic, or just deluded?

That is an important question. And again a reminder from God and it's interpreters best hold those answers.

You don't know it's true before knowing it's true. But giving different books a try, and one of them might hold all the answers you were looking for and more.

The search for wisdom is good no matter what.  There is no harm in seeking wisdom.

So then, circular reasoning is needed. No thanks.

Please let us know how to tell the difference between this 'reminder from God' you speak of, is actually true, or just you being gullible.

[possibletarian]

You don't know it's true before knowing it's true. But giving different books a try, and one of them might hold all the answers you were looking for and more.

Are you saying that to know it's true you first have to believe it's true? if so I can apply that from anything from Santa to shiva.
This is why simply believing something is true is not good enough, you have to have some collaborating evidence other than a book or holy writings from others who like you believe it's true.

[BeeDeePee]

I accept I am a sinner.

I accept I am corrupt.

I accept the Bible is true.

I accept Evolution is a lie.

I accept atheists are immoral.

I accept homosexuality is wrong.

Theists, please present peer reviewed evidence for any of these positions.

Putting aside that I'm not committed to some of the claims you mention as well as that your understanding of their content may significantly differ from my own, I cannot provide any evidence in their support. I'm fully aware that my religious beliefs are not rationally based.

[JackRussell]

I accept I am a sinner.

I accept I am corrupt.

I accept the Bible is true.

I accept Evolution is a lie.

I accept atheists are immoral.

I accept homosexuality is wrong.

Theists, please present peer reviewed evidence for any of these positions.

Putting aside that I'm not committed to some of the claims you mention as well as that your understanding of their content may significantly differ from my own, I cannot provide any evidence in their support. I'm fully aware that my religious beliefs are not rationally based.

Fair enough. I don't particularly care what an individual believes.

It's when their beliefs impact on my world that I care deeply.

Differences in understanding can be explored via dialogue.

I am open to that, but too world weary to expect an honest discourse from too many people.

I include some atheists on that spectrum as well, for sure.

[SteveII]

I accept I am a sinner.

I accept I am corrupt.

I accept the Bible is true.

I accept Evolution is a lie.

I accept atheists are immoral.

I accept homosexuality is wrong.

Theists, please present peer reviewed evidence for any of these positions.

The word "accept" is a statement of belief. Statements of belief do not require evidence. You should be asking for reasons why someone believes these things. But at that point your demand for "peer reviewed evidence" is barely relevant (if at all).

[Simon Moon]

I'm fully aware that my religious beliefs are not rationally based.

Wow, an honest theist. I am
somewhat impressed.

But your statement leads to all sorts of other questions.

Like, why would you want to believe things that are not rationally, or evidently, warranted?

Are there any other aspects of your life, besides your theistic beliefs, where you do this? I sure hope you use rationality when you cross the street!

People believe things because they are convinced the things are true, or likely true. If your beliefs are not rationally warranted, what convinced you that they are true, or likely true?

I just can't relate to this kind of thinking. I want to have as many true beliefs as possible, and as few false beliefs as possible. I want my internal representation of reality to closely map to reality as possible. The single best method ever discovered to lead to true beliefs, and eliminate false beliefs, is to base them on demonstrable evidence, reasoned argument and valid/sound logic. What method did you use in order to discern your beliefs are true?

[Mystic]

You don't know it's true before knowing it's true. But giving different books a try, and one of them might hold all the answers you were looking for and more.

Are you saying that to know it's true you first have to believe it's true?

No, the opposite, I am saying first you know, and then you have faith, which is nothing but confidences in one's knowledge of clear proofs once they are understood through reflection.

Thank you for trying to understand.

I am saying who you end up following if God exists and made a guidance come from him, are the same humans you have to look for proofs of the religion, and their authority, and God's authority and to know who God is and his manifest proofs.

And if you don't go to them when you are lost and confused, but just wait for a Theists to come save you from ignorance or rely on other then God to know God, there is no excuse if you had access to their teachings.

It is upon you to give religions their proper due and investigate the truth and strive to know God to your last breath.

[possibletarian]

No, the opposite, I am saying first you know, and then you have faith, which is nothing but confidences in one's knowledge of clear proofs once they are understood through reflection.

That does not make sense, at least to me, how do you first 'know'? are you talking about educating yourself in a particular religion or belief which then may lead to accepting it as true, for you what kind of evidence would you have to have to accept any such teaching as true ?

I am saying who you end up following if God exists and made a guidance come from him, are the same humans you have to look for proofs of the religion, and their authority, and God's authority and to know who God is and his manifest proofs.

I think I know what you are saying here, can you show me some example of proofs ones that can only be attributed to a god ?

And if you don't go to them when you are lost and confused, but just wait for a Theists to come save you from ignorance or rely on other then God to know God, there is no excuse if you had access to their teachings.

I'm not looking for an excuse, I'm looking for a reason to believe, actually no that's not true I was Christian for many years winsome with my faith and knowledgable, but i found that knowledge balanced against reality did not actually stack up.

It is upon you to give religions their proper due and investigate the truth and strive to know God to your last breath.

I can't say I've given all religions a chance, but I have rejected the supernatural, which in turn rejects many religions (unless it's simply a term used for things we cannot explain) in which case saying 'I don't know' seems much better than trying to explain it in supernatural ways.

[WinterHold]

Are you saying that to know it's true you first have to believe it's true?

No, the opposite, I am saying first you know, and then you have faith, which is nothing but confidences in one's knowledge of clear proofs once they are understood through reflection.

Thank you for trying to understand.

I am saying who you end up following if God exists and made a guidance come from him, are the same humans you have to look for proofs of the religion, and their authority, and God's authority and to know who God is and his manifest proofs.

And if you don't go to them when you are lost and confused, but just wait for a Theists to come save you from ignorance or rely on other then God to know God, there is no excuse if you had access to their teachings.

It is upon you to give religions their proper due and investigate the truth and strive to know God to your last breath.

The Quran says the exact opposite:

Sura 90, The Quran:
( 11 )   But he has not broken through the difficult pass.
( 12 )   And what can make you know what is [breaking through] the difficult pass?
( 13 )   It is the freeing of a slave
( 14 )   Or feeding on a day of severe hunger
( 15 )   An orphan of near relationship
( 16 )   Or a needy person in misery
( 17 )   And then being among those who believed and advised one another to patience and advised one another to compassion.

First; you break through the "difficult pass". Then; belief doesn't seem like a bad idea at all.

But no wonder that you believe in backwards. You're a Shiite after all.
People who do good deeds, are better than wretched- self righteous believers who hang gays from cranes.