What would you do if you found out God existed

[Captain_Nemo]

That is called Ad hominem and is even cheaper.

It is as if we played ping pong and You smashed Your own had against the table and said it was me

I don't believe that is an Ad Hominem attack.

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I don't believe You don't believe that is an ad hominem attack ....

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Well anyhow a good book to start is :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florentine_Histories

[Minimalist]

That is called Ad hominem and is even cheaper.

It is as if we played ping pong and You smashed Your own had against the table and said it was me

Oh for fucks sake, if you're going to use the word at least learn what it means.  An ad hom would be if I claimed that you were wrong because you were an asshole.

That too!

[Captain_Nemo]

Oh for fucks sake, if you're going to use the word at least learn what it means.  An ad hom would be if I claimed that you were wrong because you were an asshole.

That too!

Well even I were to make a mistake like that, the point stays the same (I have no ball to play) and would mean that I am talking to small-minded people. This would  not fit to the self-confidence with which You are expressing Your views, or are You bluffing maybe.

Come on surprise me and show some magnanimity

[possibletarian]

My point is we make educated guesses all the time. Just because there is no concrete proof of something doesn't automatically mean we should discard it as a possibility. Believing in the existence of the supernatural is no different.

There is a difference between having no concrete (absolutely undisputed ) proof, and no proof.

As far as the origin of the universe is concerned:

1. We don't have proof that there are certain things in the natural/physical world that have always existed or that can spontaneously start existing from nothing. In fact, we only have proof to the contrary. Things in the physical natural world have a beginning and come from something else.

Okay, it a very intuitive argument to say that things have a beginning and come from something else. though it would depend on what you mean by 'begin to exist' and what you define as something else. If it's an unknown or unknowable, then say exactly that.

2. We also don't have proof that there exists anything beyond the natural physical world which would defy these laws of nature - aka, the supernatural.

That's what science is for, to search for these answers. At one time for instance we didn't know what caused earthquakes, tsunamis, lightening and the like, now we do. They are no longer the anger of the god's but natural events. Thought insanely people do still attribute them as punishments from (insert your deity here) god.

If you say "there absolutely is nothing beyond our natural physical world", you're basically conceding that something in the natural physical world either has always existed or spontaneously came to exist, even though there is no proof that either of this can happen.

That's just the point, most scientists say they simply do not know how the universe began or rather what caused the big bang. In other worlds they are still in the excitement and joy of trying to discover that, personally i think it's a fascinating question.

If you say "obviously there is more beyond our natural physical world that is not bound by the laws of nature", you're taking a position that also has no proof.

Generally people say 'we do not know' when they do not know, that argument you outline would seem to me would be more likely to come from those who believe in the supernatural

Either way, you're making some sort of guess that is not based on concrete evidence.

I think you are justified in saying some are educated guesses, but generally they are educated guesses based on the world around us, or experience. But to use an example of buying eggs that you gave in another post there is a great deal of difference saying that you guessed your husband would buy some and took a risk, and saying you supernaturally knew that your husband had already got some eggs.

[Cyberman]

Yeah... Min lacks self-confidence...

[Minimalist]

So I checked your link and clicked on the very first footnote and it came back with a reference to Baker Academic.

Here, from their web page is their "mission statement."

Baker Academic

serves the academy and the church by publishing works that further the pursuit of knowledge and understanding within the context of Christian faith.

You'll forgive me if I am not impressed?

Now here's a link for you.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/postevery...t-hold-up/

Did historical Jesus really exist? The evidence just doesn’t add up.

There are clearly good reasons to doubt Jesus’ historical existence.

Note how sources are discussed and not just "holy this or holy that."

[Captain_Nemo]

So I checked your link and clicked on the very first footnote and it came back with a reference to Baker Academic.

Here, from their web page is their "mission statement."

Baker Academic

serves the academy and the church by publishing works that further the pursuit of knowledge and understanding within the context of Christian faith.

You'll forgive me if I am not impressed?

Now here's a link for you.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/postevery...t-hold-up/

Did historical Jesus really exist? The evidence just doesn’t add up.

There are clearly good reasons to doubt Jesus’ historical existence.

Note how sources are discussed and not just "holy this or holy that."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concussion_(2015_film)

Ever seen this movie?
Imagine the NFL as a political organism - what kind of power they had to prevent an outflow of information that could be unbeneficial for them.
There was proof without a doubt and still...

Some things are not said because the transmitter dies and You wouldn't trust just the average Joe.

Now imagine something like BANKS/Goverments as a political organism - what kind of power would they have to prevent an outflow of information that could be unbeneficial for them?

One could take the example of China or Russia  - what kind of actions would they take to fight religion? Once those actions are understood one could try to find out if the same actions are being undertaken by any party on the internet.

[The Grand Nudger]

Oh that must be it, the reason that we can't find a historical jesus is because historians are hiding the evidence.  Most likely up an apologists ass, which explains the smell whenever they trot it out.

[Minimalist]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concussion_(2015_film)

I have seen it.  You are rapidly convincing me that you got hit on the head waaayyy too hard.

[Captain_Nemo]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concussion_(2015_film)

I have seen it.  You are rapidly convincing me that you got hit on the head waaayyy too hard.

Ad hominem

No ball, means no balls.