The Universal Moral Code

[BlindedWantsToSee]

What you've offered here won't do a single thing to stop wars, violence..or...strangest of the bunch..sickness.  It also doesn;t demonstrate why anyone sn;t getting what they want by the way they're living, nor does it present a shred of a hint as to what to do to get whatever they want.

Wrong and useless, a dizzying combination.

Khemikal, I get the impression that you do not want to see any truth that may be found in what I have to say. This is fine with me. We all have the right to close the eyes of our understandings and refuse to see what we don't want to see, even if it is obvious. I respect your decision. It is not my intention to convince you or anybody anybody else of anything . I'm just offering a theory that makes sense to  me, as a courtesy, only to those who may find the theory to make sense to them as well.

You assure us that what I have  offered here won't do a single thing to stop wars, violence..or... sickness. And you imply that even if people start observing the Universal Moral Code I have presented here, people will not (as a result) experience more peace, or health, or any of the other conditions people value and want to experience in their lives. However, it is impossible for you to really know that what you are saying and implying is true, because you have not tried it; you have not lived in observance to the Code in an environment where all other living beings do the same, and you have not experienced the results of that way of life. 

What I'm saying follows logic, and must be true. I know this, even if I have not lived according to the Code myself, again because my conclusions follow by logical necessity. For example, If all people decide that they will abstain from warring with each other and they follow through with that decision, then we can be assured that wars will cease to occur (even if this has never actually happened before). As long as all people abstain from making war, there will not be any wars. We can say this with certainty. It is logical.

Now, if we go back to what the moral code says, and imagine that all living beings follow the code (they all respect the life and the will of all other living beings, and they refrain from inflicting harm on any other living being, in any way, and they practice the rest of the code), then it follows that there would be peace and health, etc. (microorganisms would respect our lives and well-being, so they would not invade our bodies in a harmful way). There would be nobody getting harmed or disrespected by anybody else because all living beings would be refraining from inflicting any kind of harm, suffering, or injustice on any other living being. This is what most people want, I believe.

Of course, the obvious question is how do we make others follow the rules, without imposing our will on them, thus breaking the rules ourselves? It cannot be done, nor can we stop from eating other living beings. This does not mean that the Code is not righteous and just. It means that we are forced to live in an environment (internally and externally) where we cannot be righteous and just to all living beings, and as long as we remain living in this unjust environment we will have to deal with evil and injustice being done against us (everybody is doing it, everywhere, so it is just a matter of time before somebody does it to us).

So, what could we do? I'm not telling anybody what to do. This is a personal decision.

I'll tell you what I will do. To me, life is like an unfair, wrongful, unjust, and hurtful game. I don't like the field where I play; I don't like the arena. Some of the players are rather nasty; I don't like them. The umpires plays favorites; I don't like them. I don't like the official rules of the game because they are unfair, because they cannot be complied with, yet I must be penalized for not complying. A lot of foul play and cheating goes unpunished. I feel bad when I cause an injury to some other player. There are too many injuries and hurt players, including myself, for me to really be able to enjoy this game.  So, I will quit playing the game when I feel the time is right for me to quit (not immediately, for some reason I don't fully understand I still want to stick around).

If you find anything useful here, you are welcome to apply it in your life; if not, let me not waste your time. Peace.

[Edwardo Piet]

I don't get it. Why are you talking like a religious person but your views say "I'm not religious"?

[The Grand Nudger]

Khemikal, I get the impression that you do not want to see any truth that may be found in what I have to say. This is fine with me. We all have the right to close the eyes of our understandings and refuse to see what we don't want to see, even if it is obvious. I respect your decision. It is not my intention to convince you or anybody anybody else of anything . I'm just offering a theory that makes sense to  me, as a courtesy, only to those who may find the theory to make sense to them as well.

There is no truth to be seen in it.  It;s a convenient excuse, the notion that you're brilliant expose on morality and the human condition is just too refined for the eyes of the unwashed masses...and that;s a charge that;s been leveled by loons since the dawn of time.  It's never been true, unfortunately.

You assure us that what I have  offered here won't do a single thing to stop wars, violence..or... sickness. And you imply that even if people start observing the Universal Moral Code I have presented here, people will not (as a result) experience more peace, or health, or any of the other conditions people value and want to experience in their lives. However, it is impossible for you to really know that what you are saying and implying is true, because you have not tried it; you have not lived in observance to the Code in an environment where all other living beings do the same, and you have not experienced the results of that way of life. 

I've never driven a car off a cliff, either....but I have a good idea of how that will turn out.

What I'm saying follows logic, and must be true. I know this, even if I have not lived according to the Code myself, again because my conclusions follow by logical necessity. For example, If all people decide that they will abstain from warring with each other and they follow through with that decision, then we can be assured that wars will cease to occur (even if this has never actually happened before). As long as all people abstain from making war, there will not be any wars. We can say this with certainty. It is logical.

No, it isn't.  You started out blustering about karmic forces and revenge killings for wheat eating.  Then you confused causality and physics for the same karmic forces.  There;'s nothing remotely logical about any of it.  You present no facts to form a sound proposition, and you fail to provide a valid means of inference for which to reach your conclusion.

Now, if we go back to what the moral code says, and imagine that all living beings follow the code (they all respect the life and the will of all other living beings, and they refrain from inflicting harm on any other living being, in any way, and they practice the rest of the code), then it follows that there would be peace and health, etc. (microorganisms would respect our lives and well-being, so they would not invade our bodies in a harmful way). There would be nobody getting harmed or disrespected by anybody else because all living beings would be refraining from inflicting any kind of harm, suffering, or injustice on any other living being. This is what most people want, I believe.

What -actually- follows is death, pointless death..at that, in service to a moral code with no noticeable moral significance.  

Of course, the obvious question is how do we make others follow the rules, without imposing our will on them, thus breaking the rules ourselves? It cannot be done, nor can we stop from eating other living beings. This does not mean that the Code is not righteous and just. It means that we are forced to live in an environment (internally and externally) where we cannot be righteous and just to all living beings, and as long as we remain living in this unjust environment we will have to deal with evil and injustice being done against us (everybody is doing it, everywhere, so it is just a matter of time before somebody does it to us).

It means that the code, in addition to being empty of moral significance and so not a moral code in any meaningful sense...is utterly useless even as a vacant legalism.

So, what could we do? I'm not telling anybody what to do. This is a personal decision.

I'll tell you what I will do. To me, life is like an unfair, wrongful, unjust, and hurtful game. I don't like the field where I play; I don't like the arena. Some of the players are rather nasty; I don't like them. The umpires plays favorites; I don't like them. I don't like the official rules of the game because they are unfair, because they cannot be complied with, yet I must be penalized for not complying. A lot of foul play and cheating goes unpunished. I feel bad when I cause an injury to some other player. There are too many injuries and hurt players, including myself, for me to really be able to enjoy this game.  So, I will quit playing the game when I feel the time is right for me to quit (not immediately, for some reason I don't fully understand I still want to stick around).

Your shitty life is your own business.  It doesn't inform any of us, including yourself, on the nature of morality or the condition of man.  Your "moral code" amounts to nothing more than a rationalization for ending it all.

Go get help, suicidal ideation is beyond the purview of these boards.

[BlindedWantsToSee]

I don't get it. Why are you talking like a religious person but your views say "I'm not religious"?

It is probably because of my religious background. I don't follow any religion, though. I believe all religions tell lies and mislead people, along with giving them some good advice also. However, I believe that the quality of our life experiences matters to us, and I believe that our beliefs, ideas, knowledge, and of course, our actions determine whether those experiences we have are pleasant to us or not. That's why I talk about these subjects.

[brewer]

It is probably because of my religious background. I don't follow any religion, though. I believe all religions tell lies and mislead people,  along with giving them some good advice also.  However, I believe that the quality of our life experiences matters to us,  and I believe that our beliefs,  ideas,  knowledge,  and of course, our actions determine whether those experiences we have are pleasant to us or not. That's why I talk about these subjects.

Do you understand that this is what some of us think you've been telling us? Lies may be to harsh, more like fantasy.

[BlindedWantsToSee]

I assure you,  I've been sincere in all I've said.

Then you need to go back and review all that you've said and examine/determine if it comports with reality. I think several here have indicated that your belief is not very realistic.

What I've said doesn't comport with reality. But this does not mean that what I'm saying is wrong. Reality is wrong! and unjust, and evil. This is, actually, my claim. I know it sounds crazy, and I know I cannot prove it. So I'm really not trying to do that. I'm just sharing an idea, because very few people dare question reality. But, you know? Just because something cannot be proven at a point in time, it does not mean that something is not true, or does not exist, or doesn't affect our lives. There are many examples of this in history, medicine, and other fields.

My above/previous/most recent reply to Khemikal explains where I'm coming from in more detail, if you are interested.

---

It is probably because of my religious background. I don't follow any religion, though. I believe all religions tell lies and mislead people,  along with giving them some good advice also.  However, I believe that the quality of our life experiences matters to us,  and I believe that our beliefs,  ideas,  knowledge,  and of course, our actions determine whether those experiences we have are pleasant to us or not. That's why I talk about these subjects.

Do you understand that this is what some of us think you've been telling us? Lies may be to harsh, more like fantasy.

It had not occurred to me, but it makes sense that some of you would get that impression. What I have to say may not be relevant for the majority of you (that's why you cannot relate to it) or to most people in general, but for the sake of those who may find something of value in what I have to say, I share my ideas. And I'm grateful to atheistforums.com for allowing me to do this here.

[brewer]

Then you need to go back and review all that you've said and examine/determine if it comports with reality. I think several here have indicated that your belief is not very realistic.

What I've said doesn't comport with reality.  But this does not mean that what I'm saying is wrong.  Reality is wrong! and unjust, and evil. This is, actually, my claim. I know it sounds crazy, and I know I cannot prove it. So I'm really not trying to do that.  I'm just sharing an idea, because very few people dare question reality.  But,  you know?  Just because something cannot be proven at a point in time,  it does not mean that something is not true, or does not exist, or doesn't affect our lives.  There are many examples of this in history, medicine,  and other fields.

My  above/previous/most recent reply to Khemikal explains where I'm coming from in more detail, if you are interested.

---

Do you understand that this is what some of us think you've been telling us? Lies may be to harsh, more like fantasy.

It had not occurred to me,  but it makes sense that some of you would get that impression.  What I have to say may not be relevant for the majority of you (that's why you cannot relate to it) or to most people in general, but for the sake of those who may find something of value in what I have to say, I share my ideas.  And I'm grateful to atheistforums.com for allowing me to do this here.

bold mine

Actually it does mean that what you are saying is incorrect. Reality is not wrong, unjust or evil. Those are your own subjective emotional judgments and justifications. Reality is,....... that's it,......... nothing more. Your perceptions and interpretations are basically delusions, delusions that only you hold. 

Your perceptions of reality have to be accepted (at least in part) by third parties in order for them to be considered correct. If you've noticed, few to none here have accepted them. What does that tell you about your perceptions and ideas?

It should tell you that they are fantasy at best, self destructive delusions at worst. 

You need to rethink your perceived place in reality, if you have the ability, you may not.

[BlindedWantsToSee]

[quote='BlindedWantsToSee' pid='1649211' dateline='1509651782']]

bold mine

Actually it does mean that what you are saying is incorrect. Reality is not wrong, unjust or evil. Those are your own subjective emotional judgments and justifications. Reality is,....... that's it,......... nothing more. Your perceptions and interpretations are basically delusions, delusions that only you hold. 

Your perceptions of reality have to be accepted (at least in part) by third parties in order for them to be considered correct. If you've noticed, few to none here have accepted them. What does that tell you about your perceptions and ideas?

It should tell you that they are fantasy at best, self destructive delusions at worst. 

You need to rethink your perceived place in reality, if you have the ability, you may not.

I see the world, realty: what is, what is happening now, what has happened all throughout history, and I see the condition of billions of people, and I see the suffering humanity goes through, and I'm not satisfied with it. I cannot help but to pass judgement on this reality (it's subjective of course): I don't like it, and I say it is not good because of all the suffering that exists in this reality. I think I'm justified in feeling this way, and I don't think I'm the only one who feels this way, but for some reason other people seem like they don't really care to do anything about this situation.

Anyway, thanks discussing this subject with me and for the advice.

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Go get help, suicidal ideation is beyond the purview of these boards.

I feel fine. I don't need any help. Thank you though.