Under no circumstance should cops KILL

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Glad to hear it! As a non-American the gun situation over there seems crazy (as well as many other things) so I thought that it was best to check.

As an American, one that lives in the countryside, and one who doesn't own a firearm, where a large part of the population does., I think that much of the craziness around guns is over-hyped.   Not that there is not issues, but a gun is only the means, and not the overall problem.

Most Americans don't own guns. Most Americans that own a gun own just one. Three percent of Americans own one half of the guns in the country, that's ~250,000,000 guns owned by ~90,000 people.

[Brian37]

As an American, one that lives in the countryside, and one who doesn't own a firearm, where a large part of the population does., I think that much of the craziness around guns is over-hyped.   Not that there is not issues, but a gun is only the means, and not the overall problem.

Most Americans don't own guns. Most Americans that own a gun own just one. Three percent of Americans own one half of the guns in the country, that's ~250,000,000 guns owned by ~90,000 people.

Um where did you get that stat? NRA has 5 million members, I think 90k seems pretty low.

But yea it is true that most Americans DON'T own firearms. And there are far too many that hoard them like the end of the world is coming. 

I do get tired of the fear of those who simply want to reduce firearm deaths. If the laws worked the way the far right claim, we would not have 36.000 firearm deaths per year.

AND just this past week we had two RURAL local shootings including a double murder so the crap about it being strictly a city thing is just that. I have lived in a rural coastal community for 12 years, and we have shootings and murders down here too.

[Aoi Magi]

In Europe, in most situations a baton would suffice, yet in US, for some reason, cops need to carry guns even when standing up to a 4year old child.

I'm pretty sure, that if they where only dealing with four year old children, then most of the time, baton and tasers would probably be adequate.

Yeh in america, they do need tasers to deal with four year olds I suppose...

[RoadRunner79]

As an American, one that lives in the countryside, and one who doesn't own a firearm, where a large part of the population does., I think that much of the craziness around guns is over-hyped.   Not that there is not issues, but a gun is only the means, and not the overall problem.

Most Americans don't own guns. Most Americans that own a gun own just one. Three percent of Americans own one half of the guns in the country, that's ~250,000,000 guns owned by ~90,000 people.

Interesting if correct.  I would say around my parts, it is the opposite however.  Most people it is either 0 or multiple.  Someone was just in the other day, talking about a relative and a gun buying problem.  He doesn't even really shoot them.  It's just a collection of fancy shiny things.

[mlmooney89]

I own a gun, my sister just got one for Christmas, my father in law has a bunch, we are always around people with guns. We aren't in danger of shooting people nor are most of the law abiding gun owners in America.

I think what CL said was perfect about cops. Every group has a set of bad people, we can't handicap cops all over the country because some are bad. No cop would feel safe enough to work and the system would break.

[Brian37]

I own a gun, my sister just got one for Christmas, my father in law has a bunch, we are always around people with guns. We aren't in danger of shooting people nor are most of the law abiding gun owners in America.

I think what CL said was perfect about cops. Every group has a set of bad people, we can't handicap cops all over the country because some are bad. No cop would feel safe enough to work and the system would break.

Nobody wants that. I want cops to make it home safely too. But this is not an argument for either cops or citizens, "Don't lump the bad players in with the good players."

36,000 firearm deaths per year is the issue. 

This is not about hating cops, or hating all gun owners. This is about long term policy that has allowed ease of access and a flooded market.

Most cops are good, most citizens whom own firearms want to think they are doing the right thing. NOT THE ISSUE.

We have a crappy vetting system and we make way too many. <------NONE OF THAT is a call for a totalitarian state. It is simply saying we have a long term mistrust between cops and society, and we make it way too easy for those who are ill intended to use them.

If you don't want domestic abusers to have them, our laws suck.
If you don't want the mentally ill to have them, our laws suck.
If you don't want white racists to shoot up black churches, or Muslim terrorists to shoot up night clubs. OUR LAWS SUCK.

NOBODY is trying to end our free society for simply saying what we currently are doing is not working.

[Aoi Magi]

I think what CL said was perfect about cops. Every group has a set of bad people, we can't handicap cops all over the country because some are bad. No cop would feel safe enough to work and the system would break.

Nobody wants to handicap cops, or take away everyone's guns. But when it comes to cops, I want them to be much more responsible in the usage of their weapons than a common citizen, and a gun should not be their default go to weapon of choice. The problem also gets worse when the majority of the department does their best to protect their minority of trigger-happy cowards. The public wouldn't need to be this outraged only if they could rely on the cops to clean up these "bad apples" among their ranks.

[ShirkahnW]

The problem with that idea is that it is very idealistic. And we do not live in an idealistic world. Because the cops are there to protect us from Criminals and these Criminals kill people including cops. Therefore cops must have some mechanisms to protect themselves and to make the criminals afraid of them. this inevitable leads to death

[Gawdzilla Sama]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016.../90858752/

[Brian37]

I think what CL said was perfect about cops. Every group has a set of bad people, we can't handicap cops all over the country because some are bad. No cop would feel safe enough to work and the system would break.

Nobody wants to handicap cops, or take away everyone's guns. But when it comes to cops, I want them to be much more responsible in the usage of their weapons than a common citizen, and a gun should not be their default go to weapon of choice. The problem also gets worse when the majority of the department does their best to protect their minority of trigger-happy cowards. The public wouldn't need to be this outraged only if they could rely on the cops to clean up these "bad apples" among their ranks.

ME TOO!

I hate hearing about citizens getting shot while unarmed. BUT again, it isn't as simple as blaming cops. It has to do with ECONOMIC conditions long term, both for society and cops. Hard to blame cops if you GUT funding to their resources and simply sell them more lethal weapons. Instead we SHOULD fund better training including deescalation training, non lethal means and enough officers whom live in the communities they serve. 

BUT if we also don't want them defaulting to lethal means, it makes no sense to have such a flooded market that they have to work in and fear. IT IS A TWO WAY STREET.

FEAR is what sells weapons to both cops and society. THAT has been the vile marketing by the industry and the NRA for decades. 

Bad economic policies too, not just firearms. Keep people struggling, scare the crap out of everyone, pit the classes and races against each other, and cops too, you keep your market and profits.

I WANT everyone to work together, I DONT want a totalitarian state. All I keep saying is our laws are NOT working otherwise we would not see an average of 36,000 firearm deaths per year.

The bigger picture is 36 years of deregulation putting profits above public safety and economic stability.