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RE: If you could make religion illegal
January 19, 2018 at 7:11 pm
(January 19, 2018 at 6:59 pm)paulpablo Wrote: Again I think the comparison is faulty because you're adding "humanist" in there. ..................................................... 
Quote:So now the task is not just to find non religious groups for this comparison but they have to be humanist. If they're humanist then I agree that there probably is no comparable group, but the absence of religion doesn't equate to being humanist necessarily.
Right, but now..go find me a "just secularist" group that gets up to dirt that we have some problem shooting at. I'll wait, but I won't hold my breath.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: If you could make religion illegal
January 19, 2018 at 7:12 pm
(This post was last modified: January 19, 2018 at 7:16 pm by paulpablo.)
(January 19, 2018 at 7:11 pm)Khemikal Wrote: (January 19, 2018 at 6:59 pm)paulpablo Wrote: Again I think the comparison is faulty because you're adding "humanist" in there. .....................................................
Quote:So now the task is not just to find non religious groups for this comparison but they have to be humanist. If they're humanist then I agree that there probably is no comparable group, but the absence of religion doesn't equate to being humanist necessarily.
Right, but now..go find me a "just secularist" group that gets up to dirt that we have some problem shooting at. I'll wait, but I won't hold my breath.
Please hold your breath.
Joke.....
What is the specification you're after? What does this secular group have to have done? What's the minimum size of group we're talking about?
Are you ready for the fire? We are firemen. WE ARE FIREMEN! The heat doesn’t bother us. We live in the heat. We train in the heat. It tells us that we’re ready, we’re at home, we’re where we’re supposed to be. Flames don’t intimidate us. What do we do? We control the flame. We control them. We move the flames where we want to. And then we extinguish them.
Impersonation is treason.
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RE: If you could make religion illegal
January 19, 2018 at 7:16 pm
(This post was last modified: January 19, 2018 at 7:25 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(January 19, 2018 at 7:12 pm)paulpablo Wrote: What is the specification you're after? What does this secular group have to have done? What's the minimum size of group we're talking about?
That's for you to establish, not me, if you want the comparison to hold. I don't think there is a minimum -or- maximum "size", I simply note that any organization in that guys support amounts to a palpable improvement in anyone's ability to inflict damage -and that this is why an organized -anything- is more dangerous than the cowering masses.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: If you could make religion illegal
January 19, 2018 at 7:29 pm
(This post was last modified: January 19, 2018 at 7:30 pm by paulpablo.)
(January 19, 2018 at 7:16 pm)Khemikal Wrote: (January 19, 2018 at 7:12 pm)paulpablo Wrote: What is the specification you're after? What does this secular group have to have done? What's the minimum size of group we're talking about?
That's for you to establish, not me, if you want the comparison to hold. I don;t think there is a minimum or maximum "size". One committed motherfucker with a cellphone has been a bigger pain in my ass than the religious mass he hides in.
Well I did previously speak about the Italian mafia. They aren't explicitly connected to any religion, their violence is motivated by profit with 0 religious motivation, there's no initiation process requiring members to be religious, the church has opposed the mafia and churches have been bombed by the mafia with a priest being shot dead.
Are you ready for the fire? We are firemen. WE ARE FIREMEN! The heat doesn’t bother us. We live in the heat. We train in the heat. It tells us that we’re ready, we’re at home, we’re where we’re supposed to be. Flames don’t intimidate us. What do we do? We control the flame. We control them. We move the flames where we want to. And then we extinguish them.
Impersonation is treason.
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RE: If you could make religion illegal
January 19, 2018 at 7:33 pm
(This post was last modified: January 19, 2018 at 7:37 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(January 19, 2018 at 7:29 pm)paulpablo Wrote: Well I did previously speak about the mafia. They aren't explicitly connected to any religion, .......that's not entirely true, the catholic church was instrumental in laundering money for the mafia.....but okay.
Quote:their violence is motivated by profit with 0 religious motivation, there's no initiation process requiring members to be religious, the church has opposed the mafia and churches have been bombed by the mafia.
-and their organization makes them a bigger threat than a bunch of random criminals doing criminal shit. I;m not impressed by one organized crime syndicate, in this case "the church", opposing another...competing..organized crime syndicate, the mafia.
I don't know why you think that any of it is a counter-comment on any of my own. It's just another example of exactly what I was discussing......? Organized assholes are demonstrably worse than disorganized ones. Surely, this is an uncontroversial position?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: If you could make religion illegal
January 19, 2018 at 7:44 pm
(January 19, 2018 at 7:33 pm)Khemikal Wrote: (January 19, 2018 at 7:29 pm)paulpablo Wrote: Well I did previously speak about the mafia. They aren't explicitly connected to any religion, .......that's not entirely true, but okay.
Quote:their violence is motivated by profit with 0 religious motivation, there's no initiation process requiring members to be religious, the church has opposed the mafia and churches have been bombed by the mafia.
-and their organization makes them a bigger threat than a bunch of random criminals doing criminal shit. I;m not impressed by one organized crime syndicate, in this case "the church", opposing another...competing..organized crime syndicate, the mafia.
I don't know why you think that any of it is a counter-comment on any of my own. It's just another example of exactly what I was discussing......
Not a counter comment. You asked for a comparable group to a violent religious group and said I could establish the specifications that you want.
I decided the specifications are that the group needs to consist of a few people who are reasonably violent, organized, and not allied with any specific religion or motivated by religious/spiritual goals.
Are you ready for the fire? We are firemen. WE ARE FIREMEN! The heat doesn’t bother us. We live in the heat. We train in the heat. It tells us that we’re ready, we’re at home, we’re where we’re supposed to be. Flames don’t intimidate us. What do we do? We control the flame. We control them. We move the flames where we want to. And then we extinguish them.
Impersonation is treason.
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RE: If you could make religion illegal
January 19, 2018 at 8:53 pm
(January 19, 2018 at 3:25 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Of course not, don't be ridiculous.
Besides, even if someone were to entertain the idea, it's impossible. You can't make peoples' thoughts and beliefs illegal. It's just literally impossible.
Thread/
It's amazing 'science' always seems to 'find' whatever it is funded for, and never the oppsite. Drich.
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RE: If you could make religion illegal
January 19, 2018 at 8:55 pm
(This post was last modified: January 19, 2018 at 8:59 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(January 19, 2018 at 7:44 pm)paulpablo Wrote: Not a counter comment. You asked for a comparable group to a violent religious group and said I could establish the specifications that you want.
I decided the specifications are that the group needs to consist of a few people who are reasonably violent, organized, and not allied with any specific religion or motivated by religious/spiritual goals. Well, you didn't -actually- present one, you simply posited that there may be one. Violently organized partisans are only as good or bad as their ideology.
Counterpoint, I posit that the shittiness that god believers express, when organized, is diametrically opposed to the benefits brought by organized secularism (of which our government is a representative).
Some ideas are, in fact, better than others. The organization of -those- ideas is preferrable, whereas the organization of the others is something to be avoided insomuch as we can. No sacrificing virgins to volcanos, for example.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: If you could make religion illegal
January 19, 2018 at 9:00 pm
(January 19, 2018 at 4:33 pm)Thena323 Wrote: ...
Religion's just a tool. Where there's a fucked up will, there's a fucked up way.
Some of the mainstream Atheist movements today, espouse a good deal of same hateful shit brought to us by religion.
Repackaged, refurbished....but the same shit, truly.
I wouldn't care to live in a world with assholes like that at the helm.
[ citation needed]
It's amazing 'science' always seems to 'find' whatever it is funded for, and never the oppsite. Drich.
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RE: If you could make religion illegal
January 19, 2018 at 9:02 pm
(January 19, 2018 at 8:53 pm)Succubus Wrote: (January 19, 2018 at 3:25 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Of course not, don't be ridiculous.
Besides, even if someone were to entertain the idea, it's impossible. You can't make peoples' thoughts and beliefs illegal. It's just literally impossible.
Thread/
Hello Succubusssssss 
Good to see you round these parts. Weeeeee!
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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