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RE: If you could make religion illegal
January 19, 2018 at 9:02 pm
Good luck with that, "whataboutist" comments are, generally....meant to be left hanging in the wind.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: If you could make religion illegal
January 19, 2018 at 9:06 pm
(January 19, 2018 at 9:02 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (January 19, 2018 at 8:53 pm)Succubus Wrote: Thread/
Hello Succubusssssss 
Good to see you round these parts. Weeeeee!
What a strange person.
It's amazing 'science' always seems to 'find' whatever it is funded for, and never the oppsite. Drich.
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RE: If you could make religion illegal
January 19, 2018 at 10:21 pm
Banning religious beliefs seems a little too thought-police to me and just as bad as forcing citizens to live under a theocracy.
Religion doesn't bother me except when holy book thumpers try to push their religions into schools and government. That's a big hell no. And churches in the US should not be tax exempt; what a scam they've pulled on that one for decades.
Also, telling me that I'm banned from something immediately makes it more alluring.
-Teresa
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RE: If you could make religion illegal
January 19, 2018 at 10:43 pm
(This post was last modified: January 19, 2018 at 10:46 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(January 19, 2018 at 10:21 pm)Tres Leches Wrote: Religion doesn't bother me except when holy book thumpers try to push their religions into schools and government.
-and that -is- religion to those people. We're all just a tad bit more comfortable with "thought policing" than we might realize. In truth, the debate is not whether "thought policing" is kosher...but what level of thought policing we are comfortable with, and why.
Governments (and societies) have -always- put restrictions on beliefs. There has never been, in the history of man, a "free belief".
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: If you could make religion illegal
January 19, 2018 at 10:58 pm
(January 19, 2018 at 10:43 pm)Khemikal Wrote: (January 19, 2018 at 10:21 pm)Tres Leches Wrote: Religion doesn't bother me except when holy book thumpers try to push their religions into schools and government.
-and that -is- religion to those people. We're all just a tad bit more comfortable with "thought policing" than we might realize. In truth, the debate is not whether "thought policing" is kosher...but what level of thought policing we are comfortable with, and why.
Governments (and societies) have -always- put restrictions on beliefs. There has never been, in the history of man, a "free belief".
And I'm comfortable with the US courts adjudicating these issues.
As someone else alluded to, your freedom of religion ends where my nose begins. The US Constitution does not restrict people's beliefs. It restricts the (public) arenas in which they may express their beliefs but, hell, we have an abundance of religious crazies - thanks to the First Amendment.
-Teresa
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RE: If you could make religion illegal
January 19, 2018 at 11:09 pm
(This post was last modified: January 19, 2018 at 11:10 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(January 19, 2018 at 10:58 pm)Tres Leches Wrote: And I'm comfortable with the US courts adjudicating these issues.
As someone else alluded to, your freedom of religion ends where my nose begins. The US Constitution does not restrict people's beliefs. It restricts the (public) arenas in which they may express their beliefs but, hell, we have an abundance of religious crazies - thanks to the First Amendment.
-Teresa
I agree...but that immediately begs the question..since the religious are not presently content to put the brakes on their religion when they reach your nose....does that mean that we might need to act to force them into compliance, and is there any act of force and compliance with regards to strongly held religious beliefs that does not amount to restricting belief itself?
They deeply and religiously -believe- that our laws should mirror their religious morality. Hopw ill you stop them from affecting this "democratically" without running afoul of your own principles in this regard?
This is not, necessarrily, a criticism of you or your opinion..just an observation on the limitations of our system of government. and how it;s rules can be gamed to cross purpose effect - as is currently being done.
In the same way that Stalin is said to have told his communist compatriots that "the capitalist will grind you to dust as soon as I;m gone" - I posit that theocrats will inevitably subvert the american system if they are not roundly prevented from doing so before they gather any steam. We will have our american taliban again, as we once did..and precisely -because- we are invested in lofty principles which are ripe for perversion....as we're seeing right now.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: If you could make religion illegal
January 19, 2018 at 11:19 pm
(January 19, 2018 at 11:09 pm)Khemikal Wrote: (January 19, 2018 at 10:58 pm)Tres Leches Wrote: And I'm comfortable with the US courts adjudicating these issues.
As someone else alluded to, your freedom of religion ends where my nose begins. The US Constitution does not restrict people's beliefs. It restricts the (public) arenas in which they may express their beliefs but, hell, we have an abundance of religious crazies - thanks to the First Amendment.
-Teresa
I agree...but that immediately begs the question..since the religious are not presently content to put the brakes on their religion when they reach your nose....does that mean that we might need to act to force them into compliance, and is there any act of force and compliance with regards to strongly held religious beliefs that does not amount to restricting belief itself?
They deeply and religiously -believe- that our laws should mirror their religious morality. Hopw ill you stop them from affecting this "democratically" without running afoul of your own principles in this regard?
This is not, necessarrily, a criticism of you or your opinion..just an observation on the limitations of our system of government. and how it;s rules can be gamed to cross purpose effect - as is currently being done.
In the same way that Stalin is said to have told his communist compatriots that "the capitalist will grind you to dust as soon as I;m gone" - I posit that theocrats will inevitably subvert the american system if they are not roundly prevented from doing so before they gather any steam. We will have our american taliban again, as we once did..and precisely -because- we are invested in lofty principles which are ripe for perversion....as we're seeing right now.
All good points. There's an old saying "eternal vigilance is the price of liberty".
That reminds me - it's time to renew my membership with the American Civil Liberties Union.
-Teresa
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RE: If you could make religion illegal
January 20, 2018 at 12:17 am
(January 19, 2018 at 9:06 pm)Succubus Wrote: (January 19, 2018 at 9:02 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Hello Succubusssssss
Good to see you round these parts. Weeeeee!
What a strange person.
I just love you too much. You da bessttt.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: If you could make religion illegal
January 20, 2018 at 12:24 am
(January 19, 2018 at 8:55 pm)Khemikal Wrote: (January 19, 2018 at 7:44 pm)paulpablo Wrote: Not a counter comment. You asked for a comparable group to a violent religious group and said I could establish the specifications that you want.
I decided the specifications are that the group needs to consist of a few people who are reasonably violent, organized, and not allied with any specific religion or motivated by religious/spiritual goals. Well, you didn't -actually- present one, you simply posited that there may be one. Violently organized partisans are only as good or bad as their ideology.
Counterpoint, I posit that the shittiness that god believers express, when organized, is diametrically opposed to the benefits brought by organized secularism (of which our government is a representative).
Some ideas are, in fact, better than others. The organization of -those- ideas is preferrable, whereas the organization of the others is something to be avoided insomuch as we can. No sacrificing virgins to volcanos, for example.
I did present one.
Are you ready for the fire? We are firemen. WE ARE FIREMEN! The heat doesn’t bother us. We live in the heat. We train in the heat. It tells us that we’re ready, we’re at home, we’re where we’re supposed to be. Flames don’t intimidate us. What do we do? We control the flame. We control them. We move the flames where we want to. And then we extinguish them.
Impersonation is treason.
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RE: If you could make religion illegal
January 20, 2018 at 12:25 am
Refresh my memory, and is it one that we have any trouble shooting at?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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