The Quran and The Prohibiting of Pedophilia? Marriage Contracts

[WinterHold]

@Atlas: So you don't believe humans are intelligently designed then?

How can life be "a test", if there was no intelligence to set up the test? Or do you just mean that metaphorically, such as a hole in the road being a "test" to see who will fall into it?

Just gonna bump this question in case you missed it. I'm very interested in how this works.

I did miss it.

But I do believe humans are intelligently designed. I said it here:

https://atheistforums.org/thread-54335-p...pid1737675

AtlasS33 said:

That's my opinion goes to say that he is a fact of this universe, if you think about him as a hollow force that shaped everything including the word "create" itself; you will see the scale I mean. We did discover that there is a point in the void where everything began from; that's a scientific theory that is quite respected and even favored sometimes. God is the force that started everything from that void; he even started the void itself.

That "everything" involves the intelligent design; also.

Regarding your comment though; I think life, this scenario we have -of life,death and judgement day then heaven or hell- is the best scenario possible and the most perfect, basing my belief on this verse from the Quran:

Sura 35,The Quran:
( 41 )   Indeed, Allah holds the heavens and the earth, lest they cease. And if they should cease, no one could hold them [in place] after Him. Indeed, He is Forbearing and Forgiving.

The universe would cease if other "scenarios" were to replace this one; so no, holes do not exist, it's always a predetermined fate, God never lost control.

Fate -as I see it- is based on our actions, but our actions are created by God.
The complicated reason is mentioned here in the Quran:

Sura 4, The Quran:
( 78 )   Wherever you may be, death will overtake you, even if you should be within towers of lofty construction. But if good comes to them, they say, "This is from Allah "; and if evil befalls them, they say, "This is from you." Say, "All [things] are from Allah." So what is [the matter] with those people that they can hardly understand any statement?

( 79 )   What comes to you of good is from Allah, but what comes to you of evil, [O man], is from yourself. And We have sent you, [O Muhammad], to the people as a messenger, and sufficient is Allah as Witness.

So; no holes. It's all predetermined.

[robvalue]

How can God be mindless and also intelligent? If it's intelligent, then it's surely choosing that I'm going to be tortured for not being a Muslim? And if so, I didn't even get any choice in the matter, because my actions are fated by God.

[WinterHold]

How can God be mindless and also intelligent? If it's intelligent, then it's surely choosing that I'm going to be tortured for not being a Muslim? And if so, I didn't even get any choice in the matter, because my actions are fated by God.

https://atheistforums.org/thread-54335-p...pid1738092

robvalue Wrote:

This shows again what a meaningless word "god" is. Now that it's just another mindless force, why is it any different to all the others? Why aren't they all gods too?

AtlasS33 replied:

It wasn't me who said "God is a mindless force".
I said:

https://atheistforums.org/thread-54335-p...pid1737675

From what I understood; he is more of a force

"More of a force". I only used this sentence to make the meaning that is in my mind closer to you.
He created all the other forces, he wills, he sees, but not a vision like ours, or a will like ours, and unlike any other force.

[robvalue]

Okay, so he does indeed choose that I'll be tortured, as a result of actions he picked for me. And he chooses to send you here to defend his actions. It's all a very strange torture fetish he has, and he obviously needs to justify it to himself. If this is all true, I can't blame you for defending it.

If it's wrong however, you're choosing to say that I deserve to be tortured for not being a Muslim.

---

It's interesting how this God chooses to make characters like me in his little theatre which feel that he's a disgusting sadist. He must get extra enjoyment from being able to deliver righteous torture to me later.

Sending someone to his defense, whose defense involves telling me I have no choice over the actions I'm being judged for, is very strange. It's not a very good defense. So I guess he's not very good at justifying it to himself.

[WinterHold]

Okay, so he does indeed choose that I'll be tortured, as a result of actions he picked for me. And he chooses to send you here to defend his actions. It's all a very strange torture fetish he has, and he obviously needs to justify it to himself. If this is all true, I can't blame you for defending it.

If it's wrong however, you're choosing to say that I deserve to be tortured for not being a Muslim.

---

It's interesting how this God chooses to make characters like me in his little theatre which feel that he's a disgusting sadist. He must get extra enjoyment from being able to deliver righteous torture to me later.

Sending someone to his defense, whose defense involves telling me I have no choice over the actions I'm being judged for, is very strange. It's not a very good defense. So I guess he's not very good at justifying it to himself.

It's not about "You" as rob or me. But it's about how the universe came to exist; how existence itself came to exist.

Meaning is: the universe is standing on the balance between the positive and the negative. That's how God willed it.
Hell and torture are nothing more but the sad negative. Just like stars swallowing whole galaxies, black holes eating the rocks we call home.

Hell is a natural phenomena. So as fate -science call it space/time.pictured as a sliced loaf of bread. Each slice contains our actions in the given time:

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/alumni/Magazi...green.html

Isn't that fate? God is the manipulator who can see through every slice of bread.

I would just say that when someone's family dies because of an earthquake, it feels so much different than a gang raping them one by one then execute them. The agony of the latter, if imagined, can give you more insight into what I'm saying:

when humans torture, it's so wrong and feels so different than when a natural disaster roars at you.

[robvalue]

What does "natural" mean? Hasn't God pre-programmed everything?

I'm afraid what you're saying makes no sense to me. At least, it's no excuse for god's actions. There's torture because he wanted torture. Is there some sort of restriction God had to work around? What's the point of any of this anyway? We're just actors in his theatre that he decided would be self-aware.

[Amarok]

Nope if god chooses to create a universe with disasters he's as evil as a gang who tortures people . And no  the bullshit excuse that there is a super secret hidden meaning is just that . By that logic any criminal could say "i had a super secret reason to murder 22 people therefore you can't find me guilty . If i would not believe him why would i believe a god .

[robvalue]

I can't figure out what atlas is trying to say, he seems to be simultaneously claiming that God is behind everything; but there's some other force at work or some inevitabilities which remove responsibilty from God. Mind you, that is the most common mindset I encounter.

[The Grand Nudger]

Gods just a force when he does petty, vindictive, and immoral shit.... and you can't hold a force accountable. It would be like blaming the tide for carrying away your kid. Tide don't give a shit, tide didn't even know your kid was there. OFC, praying to the tide won't prevent that from happening, or bring the kid back to you once taken...the tide doesn't give a shit about your allegiances, either.

This is where god conveniently departs from the excuse used to justify his base inadequacy.

[robvalue]

Of course, this conversation (and every other one) is utterly pointless, because it's all been written beforehand by "God". What kind of self-obsessed narcissist writes dialogue about themselves, and then creates life forms who are forced to read it all out?

As it happens, God seems far better at writing criticism of himself than defense. And he made me write that too.