Atheism

[I_am_not_mafia]

Meaningless. Virtually everything that exists in the world is either a system or part of a system.

Really?

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/system

System

A set of things working together as parts of a mechanism or an interconnecting network; a complex whole.

You seem to be making a case for intelligent design.

Quife the opposite.

Self organising systems driven by Thermodynamics.

No intelligent design required to grow crystals like smowflakes for example.

[Huggy Bear]

Really?

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/system

You seem to be making a case for intelligent design.

Quife the opposite.

Self organising systems driven by Thermodynamics.

No intelligent design required to grow crystals like smowflakes for example.

I didn't realize smowflakes were considered systems.

Systems are made up of parts that form a complex whole, and generally have an overall purpose.

Therefore if you claim that "Virtually everything that exists in the world is either a system or part of a system." then you imply that virtually everything has an overall purpose.

Ergo designer.

---

The fact that you can choke to death while eating suggests that there is no such thing as "intelligent design."   Or an intelligent "designer."

If we were so badly designed then according to evolution we would have died off...

[Amarok]

Of course snowflakes and their formation are a system .And no systems don't need a purpose .Self assembly as a result of physics is systematic and there is no reason to believe it serves a purpose .That's you inserting your religious presuppositions without merit .

If we were so badly designed then according to evolution we would have died off...

And your ignorance of evolutionary biology on full display

[I_am_not_mafia]

I didn't realize smowflakes were considered systems.

I am glad to have educated you then.

Crystals are known to be self-organising systems.

Systems are made up of parts that form a complex whole, and generally have an overall purpose.

Having an overall purpose is not a requirement for something to be a system.

Therefore if you claim that "Virtually everything that exists in the world is either a system or part of a system." then you imply that virtually everything has an overall purpose.

Ergo designer.

Everything that you can point to that has been intelligently designed has come about because of a self-organising system (i.e. the brain, it's neurons, their synapses and their dendrites, all of which self-organise) and is part of a larger self-organising system (e.g. a society, economy, population etc). Self-organisation has no purpose. It is merely the process whereby a collection of components settle into a stable state to minimise free-energy.

All known forms of intelligent design are an epiphenomenon of an undirected, self-organising process.

This all happens because of the ubiquitous laws of Thermodynamics. If there is any 'purpose' then it is to maximise entropy.

How does it feel to find out that your entire purpose in life is to be a Maximum Entropy Production Unit?

[robvalue]

If you could design not only the life forms but the rules of reality that they live in, would you decide to have them excrete smelly and toxic shit? Considering God could presumably just not do that, and have everything else the same, he essentially chose it to be there.

I wonder if there's an arbitrary restriction that explains this? Or just "fuck you that's why"? Or a problem he created so he could overcome it? Was he that desperate to make his work look like the result of mindless natural processes?

[Cyberman]

Free will. Jesus. Etc.

[Simon Moon]

So, what if we used the term "non believer" in place of atheism?

Does that now mean the position of disbelieving in theist's claims that gods exist, is no longer an ideology? I eliminated the 'ism', so that must mean that my disbelief in gods is no longer a system or an ideology, right?

I am glad we can finally agree on something.

You are too hung up on the word, and not paying attention to our actual positions.

*emphasis mine*
Or you could just use the word atheist...

Just as you would file a theistic religion under theism, you'd file an atheist religion under atheism.

Take 'Sunday Assembly' for example, a religious organization of atheists that claim to be like a church without the 'God bit".

https://www.sundayassembly.com/

This is a notice that I am quitting the work that I was doing day-to-day and using my time as CEO (I’m not going anywhere!) to do the thing that is needed more than ever – devoting as much of my energies as possible to spreading the word of what Sunday Assembly does

Would you not file a godless church under atheism, the same way you'd file a god worshiping church under theism?

I have no problem using the the word 'atheism' until people like you misrepresent the atheist position as an ideology.

That's why I substituted 'non believer' to remove the ideology connotation you mistakenly have about the atheist position.

The fact that some atheists might miss the weekly communal gatherings of their churches, still does not make atheism a religion. All it means is those people enjoy weekly communal gatherings.

Here it is again, my atheism is a single position on a single claim. Theists claim gods exist, I have weighed the evidence and arguments presented, and have found the case does not meet its burden of proof. This is the only thing that defines me as an atheist. My atheism is not even a worldview, let alone an ideology or a religion.

My atheism is not a dogmatic position, it is a provisional one. I will remain an atheist (non believer in the god claims) until the time theists are able to present a case that meets its burden of proof.

[robvalue]

That's interesting, I didn't know I go to atheist churches.

[Mister Agenda]

This is for those who always assert atheism is something it isn't.

Wrong buddy.

The 'ism' in atheism denotes a system.

Therefore atheism literally means a system based on the non existence of God.

You cannot have an ideology without making any assertions.

The 'ism' in atheism (and theism) denotes a condition. The condition of not having a belief in any deities (and the condition of having such a belief). Like albinism, bipedalism, heroism, metabolism, multilingualism, plagiarism, etc.

[I_am_not_mafia]

That's interesting, I didn't know I go to atheist churches.

Same here. Life became easier though once I started writing my name and address on the back of my hand.