Atheists and Cakes

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Welcome, cousin.

[downbeatplumb]

And that it is found offensive or inappropriate is the problem. People need to grow up.

Or people just need to learn to respect others.  If people want to be gay, then they can choose to be gay.  Has nothing to do with me, and I don't go out of my way to make their lifestyle my business.  If a gay baker didn't want to bake me a heterosexual cake, I would just tip my hat to them, leave, and move on to the next baker who would gladly take my money.  No big deal.  They didn't have to bake my cake, and I ended up getting it anyway from someone who wanted my business.  Win for all parties involved and no tears necessary.

You don't seem to get it. Homosexuality is a protected state due to the historical oppression. People are now no longer allowed to oppress homosexuals and not baking a cake with homosexual messages is counted as oppression. What you are basically asking for is us to think its ok for you to continue the illegal practice of continuing to oppress people.

you want us to think its ok for you to continue to be horrible.

[T0 Th3 M4X]

Or people just need to learn to respect others.  If people want to be gay, then they can choose to be gay.  Has nothing to do with me, and I don't go out of my way to make their lifestyle my business.  If a gay baker didn't want to bake me a heterosexual cake, I would just tip my hat to them, leave, and move on to the next baker who would gladly take my money.  No big deal.  They didn't have to bake my cake, and I ended up getting it anyway from someone who wanted my business.  Win for all parties involved and no tears necessary.

You don't seem to get it. Homosexuality is a protected state due to the historical oppression. People are now no longer allowed to oppress homosexuals and not baking a cake with homosexual messages is counted as oppression. What you are basically asking for is us to think its ok for you to continue the illegal practice of continuing to oppress people.

you want us to think its ok for you to continue to be horrible.

Well then go be a homosexual then.  I'm not trying to oppress you.  Not baking you a gay cake wouldn't violate your right to choose to be such, and your self-determination shouldn't be impaired by it.  Likewise, others have a right to self-determination as well, which includes Christians, Muslims, Atheists, or whatever other demographic you choose to be a part of.  If a KKK member wanted me to bake them a "hate cake" I would tell them the same thing.  Go somewhere else.  But equally so, they have the right to vote, be citizens, and to their own self-determination.  As long as they aren't bothering directly me or anyone else, I could give a flip about what they think or do because it has nothing to do with me.  It's too easy to find another bakery that will take your money.  Why not go there and give your money to someone who agrees with you and is happy to bake you your cake as you would like it made?

[Deesse23]

Heres a question for you:

Why do so many atheists  want to force Christian bakers to bake cakes for gay couples?

#1 Atheism has nothing to do with trying to stop discrimination. Being a decent person has.
#2 It is been tried to stop people from discriminating against others. Are you in favour or against discrimination?
#4 The baker is offering his service. Nobody forces him to bake cakes. But the is not allowed to discriminate while baking cakes. If he needs to discriminate while baking cakes, based on his religious beliefs, he better re-evaluate his beliefs.

They don't approve of the lifestyle and deem it immoral. I fully believe that is their right.

#5a Being gay is not a lifestyle, its a biological condition, aquired by birth.
#5b1 Thinking that being gay is immoral is like thinking being taller than 6ft being immoral. By the way: i dont approve of your *taller than 6ft* lifestyle, and wont bake you any cakes. Hows that?
#5b2 Of course its anyobdys right to be stupid and think other people are immoral for how they were born..
#5b3 ...the bigger question is though, if the bigots who are discriminating are right (rather than being bigots being their right)
#5tl;dl: Its anyones right to be wrong and a bigot, but should we? I can shoot myself in the head with a .45, but should i?

Why must a devout Christian have to bake a cake to celebrate something he or she does not believe in?
Please tell me.

#6 Its not the bakers business to judge on why anyone wants his cake. Noone asks him to believe or celebrate. Accordingly he is not supposed to force anyone else to follow the bakers beliefs. He is only asked to bake cakes, according to his offer to provide his service.
#5 Devout or not. Who gives a shit? Does being a devout bigot make someone a better bigot?

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

You don't seem to get it. Homosexuality is a protected state due to the historical oppression. People are now no longer allowed to oppress homosexuals and not baking a cake with homosexual messages is counted as oppression. What you are basically asking for is us to think its ok for you to continue the illegal practice of continuing to oppress people.

you want us to think its ok for you to continue to be horrible.

Well then go be a homosexual then.  I'm not trying to oppress you.  Not baking you a gay cake wouldn't violate your right to choose to be such, and your self-determination shouldn't be impaired by it.  Likewise, others have a right to self-determination as well, which includes Christians, Muslims, Atheists, or whatever other demographic you choose to be a part of.  If a KKK member wanted me to bake them a "hate cake" I would tell them the same thing.  Go somewhere else.  But equally so, they have the right to vote, be citizens, and to their own self-determination.  As long as they aren't bothering directly me or anyone else, I could give a flip about what they think or do because it has nothing to do with me.  It's too easy to find another bakery that will take your money.  Why not go there and give your money to someone who agrees with you and is happy to bake you your cake as you would like it made?

Suppose I were to start a business and put a big sign in the front window, 'Help Wanted - No Christians Need Apply'.  Would you be OK with that?  Why or why not?

Boru

[GrandizerII]

What exactly is virtuous about refusing to bake cake for gay couples? I don't understand some of you guys. When I was a fundamentalist Christian, I didn't have any of this hatred and bigotry towards gay people. Are you that hateful to refuse to do people who are different from you a service that you would gladly do for others?

A lot of it is misinterpreted and not hatred or bigotry.  If you were a fundamentalist Christian as you stated, I would think the conflict should be obvious.  I would bake two gay people a cake any day of the week I if I ran a bakery, but I wouldn't put certain things on the cake because my work is an extension of who I am.  If I can't believe in it, then why should I be doing it?  It could equally be considered hatred and bigotry to force someone to create something they object to.

I'm well aware of the perception of "conflict", but I never understood why as a Christian one had to make a big deal out of how other people (aka: the people of this world) chose to live? Did I believe homosexuality is a sin as a fundamentalist Christian? Absolutely. But to me, it was no more of a sin than adultery and murder and fornication. I never had this obsession with the sin of homosexuality (like a lot of other fundamentalists do) that I would advocate refusing to bake a wedding cake (or whatever) for two gay people yet not refuse the same services to people who clearly "sinned" in other ways. Hell, even back then, I was all "live and let live" when it came to same sex marriage because why the fuck does it matter if they got married anyway? Sinners are sinners and are going to do their own thang, whether we like it or not. That's the attitude I had at least. And it was an attitude that is ironically enough encouraged in various parts of the New Testament.

The most reasonable explanation I can think of for why a lot of Christians have this attitude is that they have a certain prejudice towards gay people that goes beyond "because the Bible says so".

[Rahn127]

RB- Because it's discrimination

It's an act of hatred toward a particular group of people.

It might also be an act of hatred if I were to burn down every bakery who tried to pull this kind of shit.

[brewer]

Heres a question for you:

Why do so many atheists  want to force Christian bakers to bake cakes for gay couples?

They don't approve of the lifestyle and deem it immoral. I fully believe that is their right.

Why must a devout Christian have to bake a cake to celebrate something he or she does not believe in?

Please tell me.

Atheism has nothing to do with this issue.

If the gay couple would not have asked to a "wedding" cake the baker would more than likely sold have cakes to them. That makes them hypocrites and bigots.

Be careful, the day may come when services are refused to you loving christians. I think it already has happened in other countries.

[T0 Th3 M4X]

Heres a question for you:

Why do so many atheists  want to force Christian bakers to bake cakes for gay couples?

#1 Atheism has nothing to do with trying to stop discrimination. Being a decent person has.
#2 It is been tried to stop people from discriminating against others. Are you in favour or against discrimination?
#4 The baker is offering his service. Nobody forces him to bake cakes. But the is not allowed to discriminate while baking cakes. If he needs to discriminate while baking cakes, based on his religious beliefs, he better re-evaluate his beliefs.

They don't approve of the lifestyle and deem it immoral. I fully believe that is their right.

#5a Being gay is not a lifestyle, its a biological condition, aquired by birth.
#5b1 Thinking that being gay is immoral is like thinking being taller than 6ft being immoral. By the way: i dont approve of your *taller than 6ft* lifestyle, and wont bake you any cakes. Hows that?
#5b2 Of course its anyobdys right to be stupid and think other people are immoral for how they were born..
#5b3 ...the bigger question is though, if the bigots who are discriminating are right (rather than being bigots being their right)
#5tl;dl: Its anyones right to be wrong and a bigot, but should we? I can shoot myself in the head with a .45, but should i?

Why must a devout Christian have to bake a cake to celebrate something he or she does not believe in?
Please tell me.

#6 Its not the bakers business to judge on why anyone wants his cake. Noone asks him to believe or celebrate. Accordingly he is not supposed to force anyone else to follow the bakers beliefs. He is only asked to bake cakes, according to his offer to provide his service.
#5 Devout or not. Who gives a shit? Does being a devout bigot make someone a better bigot?

#2 So discriminate against the Christian baker and his or her right to self-determination?
#4 The baker has the right to believe as they choose.  Why should someone else's lifestyle dictate that? 
#5 Sometimes there are biological explanations, sometimes it is environmental and/or personal choice.
#5b1 False analogy.  Height is determined biologically and has nothing to do with morality.  Sexual choices can be immoral. 
#5b2 Same illogical conclusion as already stated.
#5b3 Who is the determining factor of who's a "bigot"?  Again, we all have the right to self-determination regardless of what demographic we fall under.
#5tl False analogy.  First part is presumptive, second part is consequential.

[The Grand Nudger]

If a baker doesn't want to bake cakes 'cuz jesus, Max..then he shouldn't be a baker.  No one sat him down and said "alright, you, you're a baker now, get to work on all those penis cakes!".

It seems like he intended to start a bigoted church, but got confused along the way.  I can see how that might happen, lol.