Active shooter in NZ

[The Grand Nudger]

Brian...gaurantee you that guy has killed fewer muslims than I have.  Think it over.

[Brian37]

Brian...gaurantee you that guy has killed fewer muslims than I have.  Think it over.

If you have served in combat, that is still not same thing.

Dont equate evolutionary competition as being the same as an individual. Saying humans go to war, is no different than saying different chimp groups will fight over territory. It is sad humans go to war. 

But that is not the same as say, finding a puppy who gets bitten by a raccoon as an adult dog who ends up with rabies and becomes violent.

The truth of reality most of the time, is that it is mundane. Conspiracy theorists love to claim the moon landing was faked. Other conspiracy theorists love to claim Oswald had help. 

Roof was a terrorist, but funny how when you look at disturbed people's pasts, you find economic and or relationship failures. The only difference between Roof and the Boston bomber is which hate group gave them a voice to blame everyone else for their own shortcomings. But both were disturbed enough mentally, both were also quite sane. 

I'd always argue the best way to reduce any type of violence, be it mentally ill, terrorist, domestic, workplace, is to have better economics, better mental health care, better wages. But those are never case by case solutions, but long term multi pronged issues.

[The Grand Nudger]

I wasn't trying to steal anybody's hut or their rack of ribs, man, lol.  

I'll just suggest, again, that people like this think that they -are- serving in combat.  It sounds weird, and that, in and of itself, may be nutball shit...but what they do on the back of that can be as lucid as anything that you or I have ever done.  It can be the only sane response to a cracked reality.   Honestly, that's what keeps people shooting in warzones, too.

If you want to directly address these incidents, mental health and economics and all that, while laudible, isn't really the way to go. You have to engage with the rhetoric that produced the mindset. A sane person can and will do things like this if they buy in. I'm telling you that from experience. You can look into anyone's past and find economic and relationship failures.

---

To put it another way, imagining that all of these people do things like this because they're crazy is, as another poster put it, lazy.  They do this because we've mainstreamed a message that predictably yields these behaviors. Addressing it as an economic issue is just another version of "economic anxiety"...as though, if they had more money, they wouldn't do it.

I think they'd just buy better gear and more ammo.

[Brian37]

I wasn't trying to steal anybody's hut or their rack of ribs, man, lol.  

I'll just suggest, again, that people like this think that they -are- serving in combat.  It sounds weird, and that, in and of itself, may be nutball shit...but what they do on the back of that can be as lucid as anything that you or I have ever done.  It can be the only sane response to a cracked reality.   Honestly, that's what keeps people shooting in warzones, too.

If you want to directly address these incidents, mental health and economics and all that, while laudible, isn't really the way to go.  You have to engage with the rhetoric that produced the mindset.  A sane person can and will do things like this if they buy in.  I'm telling you that from experience.  You can look into anyone's past and find economic and relationship failures.

They may see themselves as a hero, but what I am saying is that is just them most of the time ignoring or covering up their own failures. White nationalists and those who join Isis, are not the same guys who landed on the beaches of Normandy. 

I can say about myself when I was a teen and a young adult, I got angry at the world. And the truth is even after I got rid of my rage, I still never had anything but minimum wage jobs my entire life. There would have been a time if the wrong person, had sold me on a "movement" I also could have seen myself as being in "combat". So today, while I didn't go up the economic ladder, and while I never had any long term relationship with women, I know now that I don't have to look myself as a failure just because I didn't meet other's metrics, nor do I feel the need to belong to something now.

I feel lucky I didn't get suckered into the wrong group. I also feel lucky that I know now that being single isn't the worst thing in the world. I also feel lucky that losing a job also isn't the worst thing in the world. 

But I do know how desperate I was back then in wanting to fit in and belong.

[The Grand Nudger]

They may see themselves as a hero, but what I am saying is that is just them most of the time ignoring or covering up their own failures. White nationalists and those who join Isis, are not the same guys who landed on the beaches of Normandy. 

I think that you'd be surprised.   The notion that any of these people are so very much unlike "the rest of us" is wrong, and it helps to perpetuate the misery.

I can say about myself when I was a teen and a young adult, I got angry at the world. And the truth is even after I got rid of my rage, I still never had anything but minimum wage jobs my entire life. There would have been a time if the wrong person, had sold me on a "movement" I also could have seen myself as being in "combat". So today, while I didn't go up the economic ladder, and while I never had any long term relationship with women, I know now that I don't have to look myself as a failure just because I didn't meet other's metrics, nor do I feel the need to belong to something now.

I feel lucky I didn't get suckered into the wrong group. I also feel lucky that I know now that being single isn't the worst thing in the world. I also feel lucky that losing a job also isn't the worst thing in the world. 

But I do know how desperate I was back then in wanting to fit in and belong.

One thing that's common to alot of these movements is that they target younger males outside of meaningful relationships, for sure.

[Brian37]

That is what I am hearing on cable news.

Which outlet?  I'd appreciate a link if you have one. I've been following this all night and haven't heard that.

The guy also had a long rambling manifesto.

Eighty seven pages isn't all that long for a manifesto, you can write that much in an afternoon.  How do you know it was 'rambling', or are you just using another word when you don't know what it means?

And the sicko had a body came and went live on social media while doing it. That takes planning. 

Maybe an hour, hour and a half. You can pick up a gopro camera almost anywhere.  A live stream takes less than a minute to establish.

 I'd still like to know where you got the info that this was planned for months in advance.

Boru

This is still planning. How does an hour or a month make a difference?

Insanity is when you think ABBA is broadcasting through your stove and Martians made Elvis the head of Isis and vampires milk cows for the communists. FYI, ABBA does not broadcast through my stove. I know for a fact it is my tooth paste. <--- Sarcasm. 

This guy was not insane. Mentally ill, yes, but not insane.Taking the time to put that on, and writing a manifesto over time, does not indicate that he thought that his dog was talking to him telling him to go on a murder spree. This guy had failures in his past, maybe even abusive relationships and was merely looking for a group that could justify taking it out on others.

[WinterHold]

Mentally healthy people go on killing sprees all the time. Just because you're disturbed doesn't make you a mental health expert. 

People go to war. They aren't disturbed. They go to war for reasons. They are completely rational. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Until a professional has diagnosed this guy with psychological problems, he's just a terrorist as far as I'm concerned. He chose to go to war. He's absolutely responsible for his actions. Don't try to blame someone else for indoctrinating him. Don't try to blame mental illness. Since all of us here agree that he's not a freedom fighter, then he's just a terrorist.

No, they do not.

Humans go to war just like other mammals group and compete against each other, but we are not talking about war. 

Sociopaths and psychopaths can be quite sane, and disturbed at the same time. It is still a form of mental defect. 

No, he did not choose to go to war. He most likely had a lifetime of his own failures and was looking to make himself important and famous. He chose to look for an excuse to make everyone as miserable as he was You don't need a religion to do that. Dillon Harris and Eric Clibold(sp) the Colombine killers were quite sane, not terrorists, but were disturbed and looking to make a mark. 

He is a terrorist for sure, but the same sense of self importance and wanting to make a mark, is the same thing that the Colimbine killers did. 

The Boston Bomber brothers also "went to war". But the truth really was the older brother was blaming his loss of his kick boxing licence on society, when the truth was he lost it for domestic abuse. You can argue that he hid behind religion as an excuse, so in that sense he was a terrorist. But the real reason he did it was because he was a abuser who got caught and lost his ability to earn a living in that sport. 

I highly suspect this guy in NZ simply had a string of failures in his life, and used clung to white nationalism because those bigots made him feel important.

It still takes a disturbed person to murder anyone for any reason outside self defense.

He thought that "the west is witnessing a new Muslim expansion via immigration"; aka an invasion, war:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/201...9d101862b5

Various historical references to conflicts involving Muslims are also written on weaponry, including the name Charles Martel.

White supremacists credit Martel “with saving Europe by defeating an invading Muslim force at the Battle of Tours in 734,” according to the Southern Poverty Law Center, which monitors such groups.

His weapons were decorated with anti-Muslim writings; the man was a racist, xenophobic bitch who thought that he's a European crusader living in the 1400s.
I bet he had a knight fetish.

This is a sane asshole. This is an extreme rightist, we know another copy from him in America's White House right now with a name ends with Trump.

This totally sane, racist garbage and his likes were even anticipated in the various reports in the past years about the scary rise of the right wing.

[The Grand Nudger]

He thought that "the west is witnessing a new Muslim expansion via immigration"; aka an invasion, war:

The jews muslims will not replace us!

His weapons were decorated with anti-Muslim writings; the man was a racist, xenophobic bitch who thought that he's a European crusader living in the 1400s.
I bet he had a knight fetish.

This is a sane asshole. This is an extreme rightist, we know another copy from him in America's White House right now with a name ends with Trump.

This totally sane, racist garbage and his likes were even anticipated in the various reports in the past years about the scary rise of the right wing.

Apparently, he was smitten with the orange overlord.   Imagine that, lol.

[Brian37]

No, they do not.

Humans go to war just like other mammals group and compete against each other, but we are not talking about war. 

Sociopaths and psychopaths can be quite sane, and disturbed at the same time. It is still a form of mental defect. 

No, he did not choose to go to war. He most likely had a lifetime of his own failures and was looking to make himself important and famous. He chose to look for an excuse to make everyone as miserable as he was You don't need a religion to do that. Dillon Harris and Eric Clibold(sp) the Colombine killers were quite sane, not terrorists, but were disturbed and looking to make a mark. 

He is a terrorist for sure, but the same sense of self importance and wanting to make a mark, is the same thing that the Colimbine killers did. 

The Boston Bomber brothers also "went to war". But the truth really was the older brother was blaming his loss of his kick boxing licence on society, when the truth was he lost it for domestic abuse. You can argue that he hid behind religion as an excuse, so in that sense he was a terrorist. But the real reason he did it was because he was a abuser who got caught and lost his ability to earn a living in that sport. 

I highly suspect this guy in NZ simply had a string of failures in his life, and used clung to white nationalism because those bigots made him feel important.

It still takes a disturbed person to murder anyone for any reason outside self defense.

He thought that "the west is witnessing a new Muslim expansion via immigration"; aka an invasion, war:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/201...9d101862b5

Various historical references to conflicts involving Muslims are also written on weaponry, including the name Charles Martel.

White supremacists credit Martel “with saving Europe by defeating an invading Muslim force at the Battle of Tours in 734,” according to the Southern Poverty Law Center, which monitors such groups.

His weapons were decorated with anti-Muslim writings; the man was a racist, xenophobic bitch who thought that he's a European crusader living in the 1400s.
I bet he had a knight fetish.

This is a sane asshole. This is an extreme rightist, we know another copy from him in America's White House right now with a name ends with Trump.

This totally sane, racist garbage and his likes were even anticipated in the various reports in the past years about the scary rise of the right wing.

Right. Atlass, this fucker n NZ was very sane. He was not insane like the college Virginia Tech Shooter, if you don't know look him up. That shooter didn't know what reality was. But like I said one can be mentally ill, and sane at the same time. You can be mentally ill and still know right from wrong. Insanity is a far deeper form of mental illness to to the point they cannot see reality and cant tell right from wrong. Medically speaking, that degree of mental illness would be if I claimed you were a butterfly who had the nuclear codes selling them to Kim Jong Un whom sent me secret messages through  my bar stool.

He was sane, but still disturbed. 

Most people do not understand that there is a huge difference between "mental illness" and "insanity". Mentally ill people can be quite sane and know right from wrong. Most mentally ill people are very sane. Insanity is a very different and deeper form of mental defect.

I suffer from anxiety and depression myself. Those are forms of mental illness. But I am also sane, and also have no desire to physically harm other humans.

I can say in my early life though, that if the wrong person had gotten a hold of me, not knowing what I know now, I could have very easily been suckered into doing horrible things. Just like this NZ guy and white Christian bigots, or those who join Isis probably do the same thing for the same reasons. Their lives suck, they don't have economic or family or relationship security. Those are people who can be very easily conned into taking their frustrations out on others.

And trust me Atlass. I have been pissed at Trump for years, long before he even ran that fucker was vilifying Obama. I hate him vilifying Mexicans and Hispanics and his calls for Muslim bans. I also hate him vilifying his own intel and the free press.

And I am sickened by his lack of blunt and strong condemnation of these events. But that same fucker also refused to condemn the murder of a white woman in Charlottesville  Va without a bullshit the bullshit qualifier, "There is blame on both sides". The KKK and Neo Nazis are not "fine people".

---

He thought that "the west is witnessing a new Muslim expansion via immigration"; aka an invasion, war:

The jews muslims will not replace us!

His weapons were decorated with anti-Muslim writings; the man was a racist, xenophobic bitch who thought that he's a European crusader living in the 1400s.
I bet he had a knight fetish.

This is a sane asshole. This is an extreme rightist, we know another copy from him in America's White House right now with a name ends with Trump.

This totally sane, racist garbage and his likes were even anticipated in the various reports in the past years about the scary rise of the right wing.

Apparently, he was smitten with the orange overlord.   Imagine that, lol.

^^^^^^ This this right here is what is really important.

Trump, just like any other world leader, are someone those they rule over see as authority. This isn't the same as a private citizen saying the same things. When a world leader speaks, people listen, so it isn't as simple as that leader chalking it up to saying " I am not responsible for that nut."

The Saudi Royals, Bibi, Iran's Imams, Putin and Trump all speak to their populations.

[Yonadav]

Leave it to the usual suspects to make this all about Trump. Trump really wishes that he was as influential as these guys keep insisting that he is.

The world is currently experiencing the most massive migrations of human beings that has happened in quite some time. But that couldn't possibly have anything to do with it. Fear of mass migration isn't hardwired into people, right? History teaches us that no one has ever had anything to fear from mass migration, right? Obviously, everyone would be grabbing immigrants by the arm and pulling them into their homes and serving them cookies and ice cream, if only it weren't for that super influential Donald Trump. Damn you Donald! You ruined our warm and fuzzy relationship with mass migration!