Christian Libertarians and Atheists - Common Ground?

[lowellwballard]

For the 500th anniversary of the start of the Reformation (October 2017) I pulled together 95 ideas about how current christianity and our society may need reforms today.  In doing that, a major theme seemed to emerge that substitutes for truth and reason are used for social and religious groups to be more successful.

While atheists obviously disagree with christians on many points, is there significant common ground between intellectual atheists and intellectual christian libertarians in that both want a return to focus on truth and intellectual freedom rather than marketing and social control?

For example, here are some propositions that I think we may generally agree on:

7. The use of fallacies in marketing can be more effective than the use of logical arguments, but there is only one valid way to choose beliefs: choose the set of beliefs that are most probably true.

46. Deductive logic requires inductive logic to support its premises.  “Faith” is treating something that is probably true as if it is definitely true.  Inductive logic is probabilistic and so requires faith.  (that is different than the common religious definition of blind "faith").

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[Losty]

I really have no idea what this is about, but it seems you’re a couple years late in posting.

[Peebothuhlu]

Hello lowellwballard !

No time for a long reply so,

Yes. People of religious belief and those with out can have many things in common.

Life, liberty, truth, justice etc

Cheers.

Not at work.

[brewer]

Welcome to the forum.

Had to read up on christian libers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_libertarianism

I personally don't think we have that much in common. Just mentioning the reformation gave me the willies.

Edit: hold the phone, are you christian liber............ or liber christian? They are different you know.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_Christianity

[onlinebiker]

Common ground?


Sure.


Both are oxygen breathing bi-pedal carbon- based life forms.


The similarities get a bit murky past that.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

I read the title as 'Christian Librarians...', a group I've always managed to get along with swimmingly.

Boru

[LostLocke]

“Faith” is treating something that is probably true as if it is definitely true.

I'm going to disagree.
Faith is the belief that something is true with no evidence or backing data to support the belief that it is true.

[vulcanlogician]

46. Deductive logic requires inductive logic to support its premises.   

Deductive logic does not need inductive logic to support its premises. Deductive logic can be used to arrive at a priori conclusions. No inductive logic necessary. Math is a good example.

“Faith” is treating something that is probably true as if it is definitely true. [i]Inductive logic is probabilistic and so requires faith.  (that is different than the common religious definition of blind "faith").[/i]

I don't agree with you here. First, your definition of faith might be disputed, but maybe that's what faith is to you, so I'll leave it alone. But why treat something that's probably true as if it's definitely true? Is that logical? Isn't it more reasonable to treat things that are probably true like they're probably true? There is only one category of things that I treat as definitely true: things that are definitely true. To do otherwise is unreasonable.

I also disagree that probability requires faith. But let's see if you come back before we dig into that discussion.


Welcome to AF!

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

“Faith” is treating something that is probably true as if it is definitely true. 

Mark Twain phrased it better: 'Faith is believing what you know ain't so.'

Boru

[Pat Mustard]

For the 500th anniversary of the start of the Reformation (October 2017) I pulled together 95 ideas about how current christianity and our society may need reforms today.  In doing that, a major theme seemed to emerge that substitutes for truth and reason are used for social and religious groups to be more successful.

While atheists obviously disagree with christians on many points, is there significant common ground between intellectual atheists and intellectual christian libertarians in that both want a return to focus on truth and intellectual freedom rather than marketing and social control?

For example, here are some propositions that I think we may generally agree on:

7. The use of fallacies in marketing can be more effective than the use of logical arguments, but there is only one valid way to choose beliefs: choose the set of beliefs that are most probably true.

46. Deductive logic requires inductive logic to support its premises.  “Faith” is treating something that is probably true as if it is definitely true.  Inductive logic is probabilistic and so requires faith.  (that is different than the common religious definition of blind "faith").

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No such thing as an intelligent libertarian, never mind an intellectual one. When your brains trust consists of Ayn Rand and Ludwig von Mises your political posturing is in trouble.