The Best Logique Evidence of God Existence

[LadyForCamus]

Can you describe non-existence to me without actually describing some thing?

The opposite of "existence".

lol, exactly. You can’t. Non-existence, by definition, can’t be anything at all, including a state of affairs alternative to existence. Can we agree on that at least?

You’re going to have to elaborate on that, and provide some evidential support.

Name anything that "exists" that does not have some description, or property, or definition.

Im sorry; I’m not following. You said reality is more complex than just existence. I’m asking you to clarify what you mean by that.

This sentence is self-refuting. If non-existence, or ‘no things at all’ was a thing that came from somewhere, then it’s something, not nothing

I never agreed to any of your assumptions.

What assumptions are you talking about specifically?

Totally depends on the assumptions and definitions given and agreed to.
I say it's a category. Does everything you can possibly imagine "exist" ?

Of course not. Can you imagine no things existing at all?  What is your mind’s eye seeing?

[Bucky Ball]

"Non-existence" is a category. It exists in your mind.
Existence is nothing other than a descriptive category.

There are "things".
We *describe* them as having *existence*. They don't actually *have* (any additional) "thing" (called existence).
It's a linguistic category we find useful for description.

[Deesse23]

Can you point me to the place in Thomas's works where he says that a being "decides to create" and then creates? All of the books about Thomas I've read are clear that, in his view, there is no decision involved -- no change or temporal element in creation. You are correct that this would require mental movement, and this is why both the Thomists and the Neoplatonists rule it out.

Kind of sounds like the act of creation was involuntary.

Like god was, in fact, a universe farting pixie?

[LadyForCamus]

Kind of sounds like the act of creation was involuntary.

Like god was, in fact, a universe farting pixie?

Matt D. ❤️

[LadyForCamus]

"Non-existence" is a category. It exists in your mind.
Existence is nothing other than a descriptive category.

correct.

There are "things".

Agreed.

We *describe* them as having *existence*. They don't actually *have* (any additional) "thing" (called existence).

Also agreed. I would even say that the statement: “X exists” is a tautology if X does, in fact, exist. I don’t think Bel disagrees with any of this, but I’ll let him answer for himself from this point forward.

[downbeatplumb]

The first cause "did something" they never go on to say how it did it or offer any evidence. Where did the immaterial being get the stuff? how did it start it? Just saying it did it seems to be enough for them.

In the Aristotelian and Thomist system, the First Cause takes no action. It is not an immaterial being.

So the first cause literally does nothing, with nothing and that's how you get a universe.

Right. (please inject as much sarcasm as you can into that)

[Bucky Ball]

In the Aristotelian and Thomist system, the First Cause takes no action. It is not an immaterial being.

So the first cause literally does nothing, with nothing and that's how you get a universe.

Right. (please inject as much sarcasm as you can into that)

Actually in the Thomistic system it does "do" something. It both "conceives" of it, and then "wills" it into existence.
(We now know "will" is a term which meant something to Aquinas and probably no longer means anything.)

[comet]

the best evidence is when observations about the system we are in match the observations about the god they are pushing.

[comet]

when they align the properties for their god to the properties of the universe I agree with them.

when they don't,
I don't.

[LastPoet]

This is the thing. Much value to philosophy, as it given us much in discipline of thought, yet it has been whored, DAP'd, gangbanged beyond all recognition.

I usually ask a philosopher "does that come with fries?".