Why Red Flag Laws Won't Work.

[arewethereyet]

Then on what other grounds should a gun shop owner refuse to sell?  The buyer has no record, he doesn't appear agitated or upset.  But you seem to want the seller to decline a sale based on the chance that something bad might happen after a legal buy.

I'm asking you (for the umpteenth time) what other criteria should a seller use to decline a sale?

Boru

HOLY FLYING SCOOBY DOO FLYING FUCK...


It isn't a matter of law...

I wish it were but it is NOT!

It is a matter of FUCKING COMMON SENSE...


If everyone is being honest, OLB  AND Boru or whomever.

Knowing my posts prior, no sane person who would own a gun shop, REGARDLESS if they followed the law, would say, "handing this guy  BRIAN37 was a good idea"....

I am not crazy, but merely pointing out if that one is going to freak out and imply the word, then why the fuck would you say "Oh well" when someone who freaks you out might  want to own a firearm?

Maybe  the better attitude for BOTH left and right is for the makers to give a shit how many they make and where they end up.

If a gun store owner had read your rantings and ravings and they still sold you a firearm...their judgement would have to be questioned.

If you were able to walk into a gun shop and act and speak like a normal person, and you have no record...just how far do you think the store owner should go to find out if you are stable or are just acting stable?  Should he try to provoke you?  Should he try to find out your stances on gun manufactures, the GOP, billionaires, and the NFL?

My guess would be any NRA stickers would be enough to make you pop a vein and go apeshit...at which point a gun sale to you would not be recommended.

[onlinebiker]

[quote pid='1928939' dateline='1566758479']

Then on what other grounds should a gun shop owner refuse to sell?  The buyer has no record, he doesn't appear agitated or upset.  But you seem ant the seller to decline a sale based on the chance that something bad might happen after a legal buy.

I'm asking you (for the umpteenth time) what other criteria should a seller use to decline a sale?

Boru
[/quote]

You're never going to get an answer.The entirety of his repertoire is " quit handing guns out like candy".

I wish he were right.

I have to pay for all my guns.

Nobody ever just handed them to me.

---

HOLY FLYING SCOOBY DOO FLYING FUCK...


It isn't a matter of law...

I wish it were but it is NOT!

It is a matter of FUCKING COMMON SENSE...


If everyone is being honest, OLB  AND Boru or whomever.

Knowing my posts prior, no sane person who would own a gun shop, REGARDLESS if they followed the law, would say, "handing this guy  BRIAN37 was a good idea"....

I am not crazy, but merely pointing out if that one is going to freak out and imply the word, then why the fuck would you say "Oh well" when someone who freaks you out might  want to own a firearm?

Maybe  the better attitude for BOTH left and right is for the makers to give a shit how many they make and where they end up.

If a gun store owner had read your rantings and ravings and they still sold you a firearm...their judgement would have to be questioned.

If you were able to walk into a gun shop and act and speak like a normal person, and you have no record...just how far do you think the store owner should go to find out if you are stable or are just acting stable?  Should he try to provoke you?  Should he try to find out your stances on gun manufactures, the GOP, billionaires, and the NFL?

My guess would be any NRA stickers would be enough to make you pop a vein and go apeshit...at which point a gun sale to you would not be recommended.

Are you kidding?


Can you imagine him walking into a gun show?


It'd be like a vampire walking into the Sistine Chapel and getting sprayed with garlic infused holy water.


Fucker would explode.....

[Brian37]

HOLY FLYING SCOOBY DOO FLYING FUCK...


It isn't a matter of law...

I wish it were but it is NOT!

It is a matter of FUCKING COMMON SENSE...


If everyone is being honest, OLB  AND Boru or whomever.

Knowing my posts prior, no sane person who would own a gun shop, REGARDLESS if they followed the law, would say, "handing this guy  BRIAN37 was a good idea"....

I am not crazy, but merely pointing out if that one is going to freak out and imply the word, then why the fuck would you say "Oh well" when someone who freaks you out might  want to own a firearm?

Maybe  the better attitude for BOTH left and right is for the makers to give a shit how many they make and where they end up.

If a gun store owner had read your rantings and ravings and they still sold you a firearm...their judgement would have to be questioned.

If you were able to walk into a gun shop and act and speak like a normal person, and you have no record...just how far do you think the store owner should go to find out if you are stable or are just acting stable?  Should he try to provoke you?  Should he try to find out your stances on gun manufactures, the GOP, billionaires, and the NFL?

My guess would be any NRA stickers would be enough to make you pop a vein and go apeshit...at which point a gun sale to you would not be recommended.

Is the point to fool a gun shop owner? Of is the point for the seller to give a shit and not assume?

If everyone on either side wants less firearm violence, the solution is simple..... DONT FUCKING ASSUME "no record" at time of legal buy, means the buyer wont get violent after a legal buy.

Plenty of people HAVE  legally walked into a gun shop, fooled the owners, and bought a firearm only to commit violence with the firearm after legally purchasing the firearm with no record.

The ONLY fucking reason America has the firearm violence we do, is because the CEOs of the firearm companies care more about profit than public safety.

Nobody reading this, who doesn't like me, and plenty, NOT JUST YOU, but plenty do not. Do not blow smoke up my ass and say that if you, or OLB or Boru owned a gun shop, and I walked in, and wanted to buy a firearm, you'd think that was a good idea.

PLEASE do not tell me you are that stupid in thinking that logic works.

If anyone reading this would not be willing to give me a pilot's licence to fly a passenger jet based upon, "Well he never crashed a plane"......... Please ANYONE ANYONE  and I do mean anyone,,,,,, tell my why a firearm should be treated like a party favor, or entitlement? 

Firearms are NOT FUCKING TOYS!

Otherwise please do realize, I could right now, because I HAVE NO FELONY RECORD, I could literally buy any type of firearm my state allows.

So if anyone reading this does not trust me with a firearm, then maybe the problem isn't me, maybe the problem is how idiots view firearms?

[Shell B]

The idea is keeping them from getting the guns to begin with. Moreover, we all know we can't stop every gun crime. We're just trying to stop as many as we can.

I'm a responsible enough mentally ill person to know that I shouldn't have guns . . . for my OWN safety. So, I don't buy them. I only use them at a range for sport. Others like me are not that self aware. They shouldn't be able to use guns. That's all there is to it. Also, do we know of any crimes that have been committed because someone was mad about their guns being taken away? Is there precedent for us to consider?

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Then on what other grounds should a gun shop owner refuse to sell?  The buyer has no record, he doesn't appear agitated or upset.  But you seem to want the seller to decline a sale based on the chance that something bad might happen after a legal buy.

I'm asking you (for the umpteenth time) what other criteria should a seller use to decline a sale?

Boru

HOLY FLYING SCOOBY DOO FLYING FUCK...


It isn't a matter of law...

I wish it were but it is NOT!

It is a matter of FUCKING COMMON SENSE...


If everyone is being honest, OLB  AND Boru or whomever.

Knowing my posts prior, no sane person who would own a gun shop, REGARDLESS if they followed the law, would say, "handing this guy  BRIAN37 was a good idea"....

I am not crazy, but merely pointing out if that one is going to freak out and imply the word, then why the fuck would you say "Oh well" when someone who freaks you out might  want to own a firearm?

Maybe  the better attitude for BOTH left and right is for the makers to give a shit how many they make and where they end up.

You're correct as far as it goes - I wouldn't want anyone to sell you a gun, given your admitted conditions of depression and anxiety.

But it's a fair supposition that a shop owner isn't going to know that about you, or about anyone who comes in. But I grant that if the buyer comes in and says, 'I have no record.  Sell me a gun right away, so I can smoke some motherfuckers', it would be a bad move to sell that person a gun.

This is why your rant isn't depicting a legitimate scenario.  Shop owners are EXTREMELY unlikely to sell to such a person, and a person planning a crime is equally unlikely to declare their intentions at point-of-purchase.

You're also way off the mark with your incessant parroting of the phrase 'no record doesn't mean something bad won't happen  after a legal sale.'  While true, it is a pointless complaint to make specifically about gun purchases.  Something bad can happen after the sale of virtually ANY item.

So, again:  If you don't want gun sales made to people who might break the law with that gun, you have to either have some way for the shop owner to determine that (which is what I've asked you for repeatedly) or you have to stop all sales of all guns (which you've said you don't want).

Boru

[onlinebiker]

I gotta admit the "I am so fucked up - nobody should sell me a gun" defense is if nothing else - novel.


Sorta self defeating.

If you're that fucked up - not only should noone sell you a gun - they should probably dismiss your babbling as plain old crazy talk.....

[Brian37]

The idea is keeping them from getting the guns to begin with. Moreover, we all know we can't stop every gun crime. We're just trying to stop as many as we can.

I'm a responsible enough mentally ill person to know that I shouldn't have guns . . . for my OWN safety. So, I don't buy them. I only use them at a range for sport. Others like me are not that self aware. They shouldn't be able to use guns. That's all there is to it. Also, do we know of any crimes that have been committed because someone was mad about their guns being taken away? Is there precedent for us to consider?

BINGO!

Now if we could only get rid of the Patriots.....HE HE....

I all seriousness I agree. I do know me, and like you, I would not sell a gun to me, or let me own one. Not because I am a bad person, but because I know my own limitations.

"No record" at time of buy simply is not enough.  I am glad my late mother when I was a kid was there to pull me out of the house when my drunk father fired his 38 with me in the room. He was a high school biology teacher, and he had no record at the time he got drunk and stupid.

Nobody honest here reading my posts if they were telling the truth would say, "Yea, Brian37 has no criminal record, sell him one on the spot"

---

HOLY FLYING SCOOBY DOO FLYING FUCK...


It isn't a matter of law...

I wish it were but it is NOT!

It is a matter of FUCKING COMMON SENSE...


If everyone is being honest, OLB  AND Boru or whomever.

Knowing my posts prior, no sane person who would own a gun shop, REGARDLESS if they followed the law, would say, "handing this guy  BRIAN37 was a good idea"....

I am not crazy, but merely pointing out if that one is going to freak out and imply the word, then why the fuck would you say "Oh well" when someone who freaks you out might  want to own a firearm?

Maybe  the better attitude for BOTH left and right is for the makers to give a shit how many they make and where they end up.

You're correct as far as it goes - I wouldn't want anyone to sell you a gun, given your admitted conditions of depression and anxiety.

But it's a fair supposition that a shop owner isn't going to know that about you, or about anyone who comes in. But I grant that if the buyer comes in and says, 'I have no record.  Sell me a gun right away, so I can smoke some motherfuckers', it would be a bad move to sell that person a gun.

This is why your rant isn't depicting a legitimate scenario.  Shop owners are EXTREMELY unlikely to sell to such a person, and a person planning a crime is equally unlikely to declare their intentions at point-of-purchase.

You're also way off the mark with your incessant parroting of the phrase 'no record doesn't mean something bad won't happen  after a legal sale.'  While true, it is a pointless complaint to make specifically about gun purchases.  Something bad can happen after the sale of virtually ANY item.

So, again:  If you don't want gun sales made to people who might break the law with that gun, you have to either have some way for the shop owner to determine that (which is what I've asked you for repeatedly) or you have to stop all sales of all guns (which you've said you don't want).

Boru

So what is your fucking problem then?

"No record" isn't good enough, if you are going to RIGHTFULLY SAY THIS.

Be it Shell or me, the problem with most current laws nationwide "no record" when someone like us walk into a gun shop WILL NOT PREVENT us from buying a firearm.

So my solution is simple. IF the firearm CEOs really gave a shit, then they have the power to give a shit. But they do not. The firearm CEOs would sell to ME DUMBASS, as long as I had no record when I walked in to the shop.

I HAVE SAID THIS COUNTLESS FUCKING TIMES,  I would not have one fucking problem with firearm CEOs or gun shops if they gave a shit about how many they made or where they ended up. But the truth has been for far to long that they do NOT give a shit how many they make or where they end up. If they did, nobody would be bitching, and America would NOT be #1 in firearm violence among our allies.

[arewethereyet]

No record won't fix everything but should be required for all gun sales. Period. And the level of background check needs to be standard across the country. All gun sales should be recorded and background checks should be run.

No, that won't fix everything but it's a start toward some standardization of the laws regarding sales and ownership.

I don't own a gun because I have nerve damage that affects my shoulders, arms, and hands and therefore I know that I am not comfortable with my ability to handle a loaded weapon.

People who don't know you (the global you) don't know your history so they can't really be expected to make a judgement call on you if you are not behaving erratically.

The truth of the matter is that how 'normal' a person has been up until the time of purchase and at the time of purchase is no guarantee that they will always be sane human beings. Mental breaks can happen during times of extreme stress even to people who have never shown aggressive or violent tendencies. Brain injuries, other neurological accidents or injuries can't be foretold. Some mental illnesses have age ranges when onset begins.

We either remove every gun from everyone that we possibly can or we find a crystal ball that see into the future and predict unstable behavior.

We know...we know...your father shot a gun while you were in the house. You throw that out there when blaming CEOs and the NRA isn't working for you. It was obviously very traumatic for you.

As has been mentioned and you refuse to hear...the CEOs of firearm manufacturers do not enact laws. Do they have influence, no doubt...but they do not enact laws.

[Brian37]

No record won't fix everything but should be required for all gun sales. Period.  And the level of background check needs to be standard across the country.  All gun sales should be recorded and background checks should be run.  

No, that won't fix everything but it's a start toward some standardization of the laws regarding sales and ownership.

I don't own a gun because I have nerve damage that affects my shoulders, arms, and hands and therefore I know that I am not comfortable with my ability to handle a loaded weapon.  

People who don't know you (the global you) don't know your history so they can't really be expected to make a judgement call on you if you are not behaving erratically.

The truth of the matter is that how 'normal' a person has been up until the time of purchase and at the time of purchase is no guarantee that they will always be sane human beings.  Mental breaks can happen during times of extreme stress even to people who have never shown aggressive or violent tendencies.  Brain injuries, other neurological accidents or injuries can't be foretold.  Some mental illnesses have age ranges when onset begins.  

We either remove every gun from everyone that we possibly can or we find a crystal ball that see into the future and predict unstable behavior.

We know...we know...your father shot a gun while you were in the house.  You throw that out there when blaming CEOs and the NRA isn't working for you.  It was obviously very traumatic for you.

As has been mentioned and you refuse to hear...the CEOs of firearm manufacturers do not enact laws.  Do they have influence, no doubt...but they do not enact laws.

STILL NOT THE POINT


America has for far too long been sold the bullshit utopia that "no record" means "nothing will go wrong after a legal buy".


THAT IS NOT THE CASE....

Most injuries and deaths START from a legal purchase.

It is a myth that most injuries and deaths happen from a house or gun shop broken into, or from a straw purchase.

MOST INJURIES AND DEATHS from firearm use START from a legal buy!

[Shell B]

Oh, and domestic violence convictions. Immediate ban from gun ownership. It's one of the single biggest predictors of gun violence.