Hell is justified.

[WinterHold]

You said torture was justifiable...

No, you don't get to put words in my mouth, I said:

https://atheistforums.org/thread-60458-p...pid1957764

AtlasS33 said:

Humans are not allowed to torture.
God on the other hand is the creator of torture; so he inflict torture but with rules.

[The Grand Nudger]

I don't need to put anything into your mouth. You keep offering it up. If torture were justifiable, then torture would be justifiable for humans to do as well.

What you think isn't that hell or torture are justifiable, but that your god gets to do shit we don't. Well, jokes on him, we do it anyway. Hell, as far as you're concerned, it's all the will of god. Or do I have that wrong?

[WinterHold]

Hey asshole, sitting in your silver tower, eating the best food and farting WMDs for sale, selling people death and weapons and holding the whole world hostage with your nuclear weapons, with a government of assholes like you who keep the cycle going: the cycle of making the profits by selling weapons.

Your cycle of war economy -that your government profit from- ruined the life of millions if not billions.
Don't play the victim; asshole. It doesn't apply to silver tower dwellers who agree to the cycle of death.

...and that has how much exactly to do with the moral bancruptcy of you and your god?
Right, nothing. ab.so.fucking.lutely.nothing
Like usual, isnt it?


Your modus operandi, and its the ONLY one you have got:
#1 Tell us how superior your religion and its resulting culture is
#2 When pointed out you are either wrong or advocating stuff thats actually immoral/inhumane, you immeadiately switch to playing the poor middle eastern victim of european imperialism, and accuse people like me for being born here and not in the shithole you are. As if its somehow my fault that #3 i am not born in a shithole and #4 you are, while trying to change the TYPE of shithole your are going to live in, instead of trying to get out of it (aka, drop your monstrous and absure fundamental religious belief and tell your countrymen to do so accordingly).

Try to adresd what i said for a change or shut the fuck up  woith your immoral monstrositoes and mix of almost narcissist grandiosity on one side and victim complex on the other. Its tiresome and pathetic.

---

European governments did "vomit" on the Middle East, and your first vomit project is invading Palestine and creating Israel out of thin air (a sin that any decent Muslim will never forget; btw).
My region was a heaven until European politics vomited its imperialism on top of it, turning it into a rubble. It's hard for an asshole like you to feel it, but actually your politics -as Europeans and Americans- did fuck the whole globe.

[The Grand Nudger]

-and all of that was jus-ti-fied.

[WinterHold]

-and all of that was jus-ti-fied.

Europe and America created a time-bomb in exchange of quick profits. They lied to the whole world after WW2 and spent years lying and stressing that religion is dead and they want a new start.

But now they brought a bible-maniac called Trump to rule them, and unleashed rightist-zionist Evangelicals across Europe.

The west went back to Christian-Zionism just like the day it started with it; but this time they built atomic weapons to protect them.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/...in-opaque/

As president, Trump has surrounded himself with a tightknit group of pastors like Jeffress, evangelical leaders who heap praise upon him for his socially conservative stances, his judicial appointments and his support for Israel’s government. Trump often invites these pastors to pray and seems to enjoy hearing their professions of faith. Many of the pastors insist that Trump is a Christian believer.

Looks like these news tell us that somebody took "a long vacation from religion" but came back supporting assholes in Israel.

[Deesse23]

...and that has how much exactly to do with the moral bancruptcy of you and your god?
Right, nothing. ab.so.fucking.lutely.nothing
Like usual, isnt it?


Your modus operandi, and its the ONLY one you have got:
#1 Tell us how superior your religion and its resulting culture is
#2 When pointed out you are either wrong or advocating stuff thats actually immoral/inhumane, you immeadiately switch to playing the poor middle eastern victim of european imperialism, and accuse people like me for being born here and not in the shithole you are. As if its somehow my fault that #3 i am not born in a shithole and #4 you are, while trying to change the TYPE of shithole your are going to live in, instead of trying to get out of it (aka, drop your monstrous and absure fundamental religious belief and tell your countrymen to do so accordingly).

Try to adresd what i said for a change or shut the fuck up  woith your immoral monstrositoes and mix of almost narcissist grandiosity on one side and victim complex on the other. Its tiresome and pathetic.

---

European governments did "vomit" on the Middle East, and your first vomit project is invading Palestine and creating Israel out of thin air (a sin that any decent Muslim will never forget; btw).
My region was a heaven until European politics vomited its imperialism on top of it, turning it into a rubble. It's hard for an asshole like you to feel it, but actually your politics -as Europeans and Americans- did fuck the whole globe.

Me: All you can do is play the "middle eastern victim card"
Atlass:*plays the middle eastern victim card*


Look at the thread title: Hell is justified.

---

I don't need to put anything into your mouth.  You keep offering it up.  If torture were justifiable, then torture would be justifiable for humans to do as well.

What you think isn't that hell or torture are justifiable, but that your god gets to do shit we don't.  Well, jokes on him, we do it anyway.  Hell, as far as you're concerned, it's all the will of god.  Or do I have that wrong?

Look at his OP or the thread title, the word "god" wasnt even in there. His original intention was to talk about the punisment not about the executor.
What he is doing NOW, is backpedaling (also one of his favourite tools to distract once he has been exposed as the nutjob he is) and shifting to his god and his alleged freedom from having to stick to rules, the oh-so-popular special pleading.

He is rather derailing his own thread than to admit he was #1 wrong or #2 and ass or #3 both

[The Grand Nudger]

-and all of that torture was jus-ti-fied..too, Atlas. Either torture is justifiable, or torture is not justifiable.

We don't care who it is that plunges the knife, because it's plunging the knife into the other person that's wrong...not the name or title or job description of the person doing it. Any objection you have -to torture- is equally valid as an objection -to torture- whether the man plunging the knife is Alan or Allah.

Or, you know, it isn't..because torture is justifiable.

Telling us that god can beat us up because he made us is not an ethical justification for torture. It's what you believe, it's abhorrent, and hey maybe god -does- beat us up..cuz he made us...but it doesn't justify torture, or hell.

[LastPoet]

That is one deep rabbit hole you dug up for yourself AtlaSS. Sadly you can't see it.

[Nay_Sayer]

-and all of that torture was jus-ti-fied..too, Atlas.  Either torture is justifiable, or torture is not justifiable.

We don't care who it is that plunges the knife, because it's plunging the knife into the other person that's wrong...not the name or title or job description of the person doing it.  Any objection you have -to torture- is equally valid as an objection -to torture- whether the man plunging the knife is Alan or Allah.

Or, you know, it isn't..because torture is justifiable.

Telling us that god can beat us up because he made us is not an ethical justification for torture.  It's what you believe, it's abhorrent, and hey maybe god -does- beat us up..cuz he made us...but it doesn't justify torture, or hell.

Try using hand puppets. Atlas is a few crayons short of a full box.

[WinterHold]

Hell is justified. 

Concepts of hell have a long and interesting history. 

Some people have been troubled by anyone's desire to have other people suffer, even when it seems deserved. And I agree with you that people are capable of such terrible things that it CAN seem deserved. 

There is an alternate view of hell in which it is not a punishment for evil acts, but the state of someone who can do them. I'm pretty sure this comes from Christian Neoplatonism. 

As you know, Neoplatonism sees God as the One -- infinite, undivided, and wholly simple. This is the soul's true home, and heaven, in this view, is rejoining the undivided. Hell is the opposite extreme, in which division reaches its maximum, and we feel no connection to anything other than ourselves. 

I personally find relief in knowing that wrongdoer's pay for the deeds they knew to be wrong; but kept doing.
As I have said in my OP:

I have reached a conclusion that people who think hell is "unjustified" and too "brutal" are very naive people with 0 experience in crimes, or they are criminals themselves who never want to taste punishment for their deeds.

Crimes are very painful to the victim; I would seriously doubt and despise a figure that keeps forgiving crimes without punishing them.
Especially crimes that involve torture inflicted from one human to the other. I won't hate a figure more than my hatred to a God that sees such crimes and decided to "forgive them". I don't know what I would say to a victim of war who lost both legs in an airstrike and saw his torturer walk without a trial with a harsh sentence.

I recently stumbled into a nest of racists and anti-Semites on the Internet. I didn't know it, but it turns out that such people are likely to rally around web sites that support traditional architecture and urban planning. It took me a while but it became clear to me that those people are just evil, and evil for this reason: they deny any connection to people unlike themselves, and narrow down the circle for which they can feel love. At the furthest extreme, that is hellish.

I object to your view of hell; hell to me is suffering every moment for a long long time. It nothing but that; the dweller of hell must feel pain and know that they are in pain, it's similar to what serial killers make their victims live before they die, that's where I see the religion hell as the most suitable end for some criminals.