Is there free will in heaven?

[reverendjeremiah]

It's downright Orwellian when people argue for freewill by appealing to cosmic facism......

Thats EXACTLY what Salty is doing.

She is utilizing:

Doublespeak: is language that deliberately disguises, distorts, or reverses the meaning of words. Doublespeak may take the form of euphemisms (e.g., "downsizing" for layoffs), making the truth less unpleasant, without denying its nature. It may also be deployed as intentional ambiguity, or reversal of meaning (for example, naming a state of war "peace"). In such cases, doublespeak disguises the nature of the truth, producing a communication bypass.

...and...

Doublethink: a word coined by George Orwell in the novel Nineteen Eighty-Four, describes the act of simultaneously accepting two mutually contradictory beliefs as correct, often in distinct social contexts. It is related to, but distinct from, hypocrisy and neutrality. Its opposite is cognitive dissonance, where the two beliefs cause conflict in one's mind. Doublethink is an integral concept of George Orwell's dystopian novel Nineteen Eighty-Four. The word doublethink is part of Newspeak.

(definitions posted for Salty, and any other who have not read Orwells 1984 yet)

The power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them....To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then, when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just as long as it is needed, to deny the existence of objective reality and all the while to take account of the reality which one denies - all this is indispensably necessary. Even in using the word doublethink it is necessary to exercise doublethink. For by using the word one admits that one is tampering with reality; by a fresh act of doublethink one erases this knowledge; and so on indefinitely, with the lie always one leap ahead of the truth.

[frankiej]

you enjoying doing things to your body that are less than healthy?

I was not aware sex was as dangerous as you make out.

[thesummerqueen]

Salty - who defines what's unhealthy?

[ElDinero]

Heaven won't accomodate anything that is recognized as sin to God, it's a place where the Lord is giving us the body and mind that he gave Jesus.

So everyone will act more or less the same then, that's what I thought. People don't work this way.

I know what you mean by desiring to do what you want to do, whether it's called "sin" or not...to sleep with people you desire, to drink, to do things your way here and there. But do those things really define you? Aren't people usually defined by the things that make them proud? The things that make them "worthy" in the sight of people the love? You invite your loved ones to your graduation because you're proud of the effort that you put into achieving a higher level of education, do you then invite them to your orgy because you want them to know another part of yourself that you're proud of? Doesn't that seem unfit? Doesn't it seem more appropriate for your loved ones to know that you enjoy doing good, than for them to know that you enjoying doing things to your body that are less than healthy?

What if they do define me? Answer the question instead of suggesting alternatives. What if the thing I'm most proud of in the world is sleeping with a ton of women? What if I have a son who looks up to me because when I was his age I was a lothario and put it about like a trooper?

The point remains either way - my hedonistic attitude is a major part of me, yes. It's part of why I laugh so much, it's part of why I love joking around and why I have a love of life. So yes, you could certainly say they contribute to the way I'm defined. The physical act of getting hammered or having sex is one part of a larger approach, but they are things I enjoy doing. If you take away those things, then I am not me, am I?

Since you've already told me those things aren't allowed in heaven, you've got two options. Either there is no free will in heaven, or you think I'm going somewhere else. Over to you.

[frankiej]

My definition of healthy is bleeding from every orifice, so I do whatever I can to achieve this...

[Justtristo]

This is a good point. I like getting drunk and having sex. A lot. With different people. Is this accommodated in heaven? If the desire to do those things is removed from me, I am no longer me, making the whole exercise fairly pointless. It would just become a place full of smiling, vacant zombies.

Apart from people not marrying and being given in marriage like the angels. I cannot see why there would not be sex in heaven. Especially given that in Genesis 6 some angels had sex with human women.

One could imagine heaven having one never ending orgy between God, Jesus, The Holy Spirit, The Angels and the "elect".

[reverendjeremiah]

you enjoying doing things to your body that are less than healthy?

I was not aware sex was as dangerous as you make out.

In fact, its the opposite of what Salty suggest. A very active sex life is very healthy. It reduces stress and makes people happy.

...so ...naturally.... christians are opposed to it.

[frankiej]

And keeps you fighting fit

[The Grand Nudger]

Keep em miserable, tell them they're broken.....sell the "cure".

[thesummerqueen]

Sex is so bad that monasteries used to own brothels.