Is there free will in heaven?

[The Grand Nudger]

You're stating your personal value judgement of things, extrapolating that to a god's desires without any evidence of the creature itself, inventing a heaven to live in, pontificating upon the living conditions therein, and then circling back as if any of this had anything to do with a thing called "free will" which is apparently such a nebulous concept that it can mean the exact opposite of itself at any given point in your responses. GL with all of that.

[reverendjeremiah]

Christians use freewill to receive the gift of salvation, which comes with the bonus of Heaven. The idea that freewill will stop existing with the destruction of evil is like saying, "without starvation, people will not really have the ability to understand food."

In this example, starvation is sin, it's something we don't really want and can't wait for it to end. Food is heaven and understanding is freewill. When starvation ends, people will still understand food, what it tastes like, what it looks like, how to make it.

And sex is honey, and beer is beer, and why are we comparing things to food?

Freewill isn't defined by rebellion, it's defined by choices, in Heaven there will be no lack of choices. The people that are going to Heaven have already made the decision to have faith in Christ and trust in his ways, so to ask if you can stop trusting later and still consider yourself a believer is a lack of understanding of the place of Heaven in general. Our freewill will be extended to the new world that God creates for us and yet we will be like the angels given assignments, tasks and roles.

So choosing something that god doesnt want is not considered an option when it comes to freewill. You are saying we have many options in front of us for us to use our freewill with, but none of them go against what god wants?
How does that change the problem? It is STILL a vulcan mind meld that stops you from having choices god doesnt want you to make. that is NOT freewill no matter how much whipped cream you spray on that turd. A turd is still a turd.
If I had mind powers, and delved into your mind and erased all of the choices that I dont like, and replaced them with choices I do like...then do you still have Freewill after that? If I erase your ability to decide wether you want to be a Christian or not. Or if I erase the ability for you to decide not to do what I tell you to do...would you still consider yourself having freewill?

ABSOLUTELY NOT... That isnt freewill. That is someone who has tampered with your mind and caused you to think the way HE wants you to thing. even going so far to make it "seem" as if you have a choice. But in reality, you have no choice, as you are unable to choose what that person doesnt want you to choose.

Your idea of "freewill" sounds exactly the opposite of freewill. You have doubletalked again. You have labeled tyranny of the mind as "freewill", and the more you do it, the more I lose respect for you.
Im sorry, but your idea of an afterlife sounds freakish and cult like. I want nothing to do with it.

The statements in which you said I'm "opposed" to freewill, you're not really getting my point. I'm trying to understand if actions (behaviors) that lead to a lower, less healthy standard of living in the eyes of those that love you, really defines someone, or if in fact actions (behaviors) that lead to a higher, more healthy standard of living in the eyes of someone that loves you, defines someone.

I think i was very clear in breaking down your last posts and showing that you oppose freewill. You think it is quite all right for someone to invade someones thoughts and cut out what they deem to be worthless. That is NOT freewill. and whats with this "less healthy standards". Your cult, and belief in Christianity, does not become the determining factor in what is healthy and what is not. science is very clear in what is healthy and what is not. an active sexlife is VERY healthy to humans, and science has much evidence to back up its finding. I do not consider believing in a god to be a higher standard of living. In fact I consider it to be ignoring reality, which can be unhealthy and even dangerous.

Most people are defined by the good they exhibit and lean on this good for reputation and to be liked. Those same people do not boast of the bad they do because it is painful for people they love or admire to not approve of them, but it is easy to admit these things to strangers that you believe you'll have little to no connection to, people you don't really care for and if you're not concerned about your reputation at all.

What? i really dont get your concept that only good acts define people, and bad acts dont. You also claim that your body, or your image, or ...you know, honestly, i see english words up there. I know they are english, and seperately they make sense. But when YOU put them together like you did up there, they make very little sense.

My point is, I don't think that a person's sexual life, their health, their power, their money, their looks, or their religion define them. I think it's contributions that pursue good, freindship, kindness, learning and equality that define people. I think people are truly loved for the best parts of themselves and enjoyed for the parts that weren't so great. Go to a funeral sometime and you'll see what I mean.

Really? A persons sex life doesnt define them? So being gay or straight doesnt define a person? If so, then why does the bible specifically call for the murder of gay people. Gayness, according to Salty, is not a defining characteristic...yet GOD surely is using it as a defining characteristic, and then calls for it to be stamped out through bloody murder. Your religion doesnt define you? If thats true, then why are you on an atheists forum? Why are all of your posts full of Christianity, and all of your hopes and dreams are filled with the religion of christianity?

wait...you say learning is what defines people, but Religion DOESNT define people.

Salt.. you have to learn a religion in order to know about it.
I used to work at a funeral home, so I guarentee I have been to more funerals than everyone you know combined. I was the one digging the graves.

[The Grand Nudger]

I was the one digging the graves.

Not today, someone else is all over it..lol.

[reverendjeremiah]

Here you go Salt... this will help you to keep digging the hole you have been digging for yourself on this thread.

[The Grand Nudger]

She should already own one, what with attempting to rewrite history and all.

[salty]

you enjoying doing things to your body that are less than healthy?

I was not aware sex was as dangerous as you make out.

Sex isn't always dangerous, usually it's really pleasureable but it can have effects that are not healthy or it can lead to orgasm. The general idea is that most people don't like to boast to family members how well or neglected their sex lives are, it's just not something many people would use to define themselves.

[The Grand Nudger]

A family get together without massive amounts of sex jokes? BLASPHEMY!

[reverendjeremiah]

you enjoying doing things to your body that are less than healthy?

I was not aware sex was as dangerous as you make out.

Sex isn't always dangerous, usually it's really pleasureable but it can have effects that are not healthy or it can lead to orgasm. The general idea is that most people don't like to boast to family members how well or neglected their sex lives are, it's just not something many people would use to define themselves.

What is it with you about family members and needing to know? Its none of their damn business unless I feel that I want it to be known to them or not. I dont go telling my family bad things OR good things that I have done.

Also..Salty.. this is YOUR life. Not your families life. Stop living vicariously through your family and start living your own life.

And also, with the "defineing one self", I am not defined by what my family members know of me. Thats morbid.

I am defined by what I think. What I do. What I want. To hell with family members or what others think.

Salty... you are one repressed woman.

[salty]

Salty - who defines what's unhealthy?

1. family - your parents are usually the first to tell you not to do drugs, even if they're actively doing them or they tried them, they tend to want something better for you, something more healthy, like a body that isn't weighed down by bad choices in drugs, friends and influences.
2. your body - by its reactions to what you're doing, the breath stinks and the teeth start to breakdown if you're forcing yourself to vomit in mid digestion. If you don't properly clean a wound and it gets infected usually puss or something abnormal will appear and pain will be attached, that's not helathy.
3. society - there are lots of things society looks down on and one of them is overreating. I watched the show Heavy and let me tell you, that kind of lifestyle is unhealthy.
4. science - science helps us understand our bodies and therefore also helps us take advantage of hand sanitizer and other things that will lower the chances for us to catch sicknesses.

[The Grand Nudger]

Not unless your parents are MD (Someone is feeding their kids magical elixirs right now)
Not unless your body is an MD (It craves those substances and actions which you deem unhealthy, not to be trusted)
Not unless it's a society of MD (It's hard to parody this in a way that seems witty. Large groups of people behave in idiotic ways)

Ah yeah, this last one is pretty reliable. Not sure how you figure you've shoehorned it in. I don't even know why you would invoke science in support of your delusions, it has nothing but "mean" things to say about them.