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RE: Indoctrination
January 25, 2022 at 4:28 pm
(January 25, 2022 at 3:30 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: I don’t think I’ve met a legit maltheist in all of the years I’ve been on the site. Interesting take. Is there any particular reason to go with base evil and greed over utilitarian goods or necessary evil? Humans should think like animals. We aren't so far removed from every other kind of animal. I'm pretty sure God wants us to live naturally and enjoy ourselves, whether that means depriving another human animal of its comfort or not, makes no difference, I think. Animals don't live by any set of principles or morals, neither should humans. In my heart, I, I mean me personally, want to do all kinds of fucked up shit. I feel like I should be allowed to do that stuff, as should everyone else. Of course, with this ethos the playing field is not even, considering not everyone wants to do fucked up shit, so those people who don't, will be especially vulnerable. But everyone will be vulnerable, more or less, depending on their strengths and weaknesses.
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RE: Indoctrination
January 25, 2022 at 4:37 pm
(This post was last modified: January 25, 2022 at 4:40 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Idk if it would pan out the way you think. O e short way of describing a civilization could be a gathering of people who don’t want to do fucked up shit -or- let others do fucked up shit. Pretty much the real or perceived limitation right now. It’s rare to see human beings act more like animals than when were servicing that compulsion.
That said, it’s the part where you think god wants you to live that way that answered my question. Why do you think that?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Indoctrination
January 25, 2022 at 4:43 pm
(January 25, 2022 at 4:37 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Idk if it would pan out the way you think. O e short way of describing a civilization could be a gathering of people who don’t want to do fucked up shit -or- let others do fucked up shit. Pretty much the real or perceived limitation right now. It’s rare to see human beings act more like animals than when were servicing that compulsion.
That said, it’s the part where you think god wants you to live that way that answered my question. Why do you think that? Well God can do anything He wants, and I believe He wants the same for us. Really putting free will to some real use.
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RE: Indoctrination
January 25, 2022 at 4:46 pm
I take it the god you believe in isnt responsible for the fact that I can’t jump to the moon?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Indoctrination
January 25, 2022 at 4:53 pm
(January 25, 2022 at 4:46 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: I take it the god you believe in isnt responsible for the fact that I can’t jump to the moon? Well, "anything you want" in the context of being a human animal.
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RE: Indoctrination
January 25, 2022 at 4:53 pm
(This post was last modified: January 25, 2022 at 5:27 pm by Simon Moon.)
(January 25, 2022 at 4:28 pm)Ahriman Wrote: (January 25, 2022 at 3:30 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: I don’t think I’ve met a legit maltheist in all of the years I’ve been on the site. Interesting take. Is there any particular reason to go with base evil and greed over utilitarian goods or necessary evil?
Humans should think like animals. We aren't so far removed from every other kind of animal. I'm pretty sure God wants us to live naturally and enjoy ourselves, whether that means depriving another human animal of its comfort or not, makes no difference, I think. Animals don't live by any set of principles or morals, neither should humans. In my heart, I, I mean me personally, want to do all kinds of fucked up shit. I feel like I should be allowed to do that stuff, as should everyone else. Of course, with this ethos the playing field is not even, considering not everyone wants to do fucked up shit, so those people who don't, will be especially vulnerable. But everyone will be vulnerable, more or less, depending on their strengths and weaknesses.
And....
Once again, you are wrong. Do you ever get tired of being wrong?
We do think like animals. It is impossible for us not to, since we are animals. But being members of an advances social species, does mean we think like all animals.
Bonobo chimps, our closest relative species, have been shown to have, what could only be described as moral or ethical behavior.
Such as: sharing food with hungry members of their group and other groups even when the food is in short supply, adopting baby Bonobos if their parents die, protecting weaker member of their group even if it puts themselves at risk, punishing violent or selfish members of the group, showing real sadness if a member of their group dies, and quite a bit more.
It is in our evolutionary past to have empathy, and to take care of other members of our group. We evolved in groups of 50-100, where our survival was intimately connected with the well being of others of our group. Humans are not tigers, we need to cooperate, have altruism and have reciprocal reciprocity to survive,
One should be allowed to do whatever they want, unless it harms the well being of other people.
For example; I murder and rape as much as want. It just so happens the amount of murder and rape I want to do, is none.
Please, if you need the idea of some god overseeing your behavior in order to be a moral person, by all means, continue to have your irrational god beliefs. Most people would be moral people, without the belief in a god.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: Indoctrination
January 25, 2022 at 5:16 pm
(This post was last modified: January 25, 2022 at 5:17 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Well, I think it’s the reverse. Not that he needs gods to be moral, but that he posits a god wants him to be immoral.
IDK, if I wanted to do bad shit I doubt I’d have any need to posit an evil god.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Indoctrination
January 25, 2022 at 5:49 pm
(January 25, 2022 at 4:28 pm)Ahriman Wrote: Humans should think like animals. We aren't so far removed from every other kind of animal. I'm pretty sure God wants us to live naturally and enjoy ourselves, whether that means depriving another human animal of its comfort or not, makes no difference, I think. Animals don't live by any set of principles or morals, neither should humans. In my heart, I, I mean me personally, want to do all kinds of fucked up shit. I feel like I should be allowed to do that stuff, as should everyone else. Of course, with this ethos the playing field is not even, considering not everyone wants to do fucked up shit, so those people who don't, will be especially vulnerable. But everyone will be vulnerable, more or less, depending on their strengths and weaknesses.
Where is the Troll Smilie?
:troll
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RE: Indoctrination
January 25, 2022 at 8:38 pm
(This post was last modified: January 25, 2022 at 8:39 pm by Fireball.)
(January 25, 2022 at 5:49 pm)HappySkeptic Wrote: (January 25, 2022 at 4:28 pm)Ahriman Wrote: Humans should think like animals. We aren't so far removed from every other kind of animal. I'm pretty sure God wants us to live naturally and enjoy ourselves, whether that means depriving another human animal of its comfort or not, makes no difference, I think. Animals don't live by any set of principles or morals, neither should humans. In my heart, I, I mean me personally, want to do all kinds of fucked up shit. I feel like I should be allowed to do that stuff, as should everyone else. Of course, with this ethos the playing field is not even, considering not everyone wants to do fucked up shit, so those people who don't, will be especially vulnerable. But everyone will be vulnerable, more or less, depending on their strengths and weaknesses.
Where is the Troll Smilie?
:troll
Here you go-
![[Image: 0LLcZjj.png]](https://i.imgur.com/0LLcZjj.png)
If you get to thinking you’re a person of some influence, try ordering somebody else’s dog around.
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RE: Indoctrination
January 31, 2022 at 8:19 pm
(January 25, 2022 at 4:53 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: (January 25, 2022 at 4:28 pm)Ahriman Wrote: Humans should think like animals. We aren't so far removed from every other kind of animal. I'm pretty sure God wants us to live naturally and enjoy ourselves, whether that means depriving another human animal of its comfort or not, makes no difference, I think. Animals don't live by any set of principles or morals, neither should humans. In my heart, I, I mean me personally, want to do all kinds of fucked up shit. I feel like I should be allowed to do that stuff, as should everyone else. Of course, with this ethos the playing field is not even, considering not everyone wants to do fucked up shit, so those people who don't, will be especially vulnerable. But everyone will be vulnerable, more or less, depending on their strengths and weaknesses.
And....
Once again, you are wrong. Do you ever get tired of being wrong?
We do think like animals. It is impossible for us not to, since we are animals. But being members of an advances social species, does mean we think like all animals.
Bonobo chimps, our closest relative species, have been shown to have, what could only be described as moral or ethical behavior.
Such as: sharing food with hungry members of their group and other groups even when the food is in short supply, adopting baby Bonobos if their parents die, protecting weaker member of their group even if it puts themselves at risk, punishing violent or selfish members of the group, showing real sadness if a member of their group dies, and quite a bit more.
It is in our evolutionary past to have empathy, and to take care of other members of our group. We evolved in groups of 50-100, where our survival was intimately connected with the well being of others of our group. Humans are not tigers, we need to cooperate, have altruism and have reciprocal reciprocity to survive,
One should be allowed to do whatever they want, unless it harms the well being of other people.
For example; I murder and rape as much as want. It just so happens the amount of murder and rape I want to do, is none.
Please, if you need the idea of some god overseeing your behavior in order to be a moral person, by all means, continue to have your irrational god beliefs. Most people would be moral people, without the belief in a god.
That bolded sentence above should read:
But being members of an advanced social species, does NOT mean we think like all animals.
Didn't make much sense before.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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