Earning the Vote

[The Grand Nudger]

This is exactly what I was discussing. I think we mistakenly attribute the ineptitude of our governments to a deficiency amongst our countries people. That, on account of this, we can believe that someone is surrendering by insisting that we demand more of our candidates, and by acknowledging that if we do not, then we cannot expect anything to change.

What do you think is my preferred scenario? That we give in to people who we assert simply cannot be held accountable? Or that we hold them accountable, as we must, by law.

[Angrboda]

This is exactly what I was discussing.  I think we mistakenly attribute the ineptitude of our governments to a deficiency amongst our countries people.  That, on account of this, we can believe that someone is surrendering by insisting that we demand more of our candidates, and by acknowledging that if we do not, then we cannot expect anything to change.      

What do you think is my preferred scenario?  That we give in to people who we assert simply cannot be held accountable?  Or that we hold them accountable, as we must, by law.

What in God's name are you babbling about?

[Pat Mustard]

Should people have to qualify for the vote in some way?

No, because it is then short step to then removing the vote from those you disagree with.

[Thumpalumpacus]

This is exactly what I was discussing.  I think we mistakenly attribute the ineptitude of our governments to a deficiency amongst our countries people.  That, on account of this, we can believe that someone is surrendering by insisting that we demand more of our candidates, and by acknowledging that if we do not, then we cannot expect anything to change.      

What do you think is my preferred scenario?  That we give in to people who we assert simply cannot be held accountable?  Or that we hold them accountable, as we must, by law.

I'm not arguing that higher standards for our candidates represents surrender. I'm arguing that not equipping voters themselves with good bullshit detectors is asking for ethical failings and legal/Constitutional misrepresentations to continue, because power corrupts.

Your solution, to not vote, is where the surrender lies, because as noted above, votes yesterday did in fact change things.

[The Architect Of Fate]

We need to teach civics  and critical thinking at a young age in schools and we need to keep teaching it in the higher grades. While people should be allowed to vote for any reason they want we should try and encourage them to vote for sound and rational reasons.

[The Grand Nudger]

I'm not arguing that higher standards for our candidates represents surrender. I'm arguing that not equipping voters themselves with good bullshit detectors is asking for ethical failings and legal/Constitutional misrepresentations to continue, because  power corrupts.

We don't disagree that education is crucial to a functioning democracy.  I simply have no expectation that a better educated public will, by virtue of that education, somehow get a better politician.  Especially..especially... if power corrupts.  

Here again, whether we're smart or stupid will not -to my mind- matter when our votes do not and we do not (or cannot) hold them accountable.  

Your solution, to not vote, is where the surrender lies, because as noted above, votes yesterday did in fact change things.

That's my solution for dealing with the voting situation I've spent most of my life in.  Your vote may matter.  I don't know your address.  I think it's important to acknowledge it.  I think it's important to talk about it.  I think it's important that the only choice I have in reality is whether or not I legitimize this situation with my own participation.  It doesn't matter what I put on a ballet.  I'd call voting ceremonial but that implies a level of pomp and pageantry you won't find at any of our local spots.

It is, after all, one of the things that people whose votes do matter intend to fix, is it not? Whether that means to fix it permanently so, or reverse it.

[Pat Mustard]

What we need is not a further bar to voting, but a change in how we vote. Mandatory, ranked choice voting would be a far better system than the two-party, first past the goalpost, bullshit system we have now.

And for fuck's sake, eliminate (or side-step via the interstate compact) the electoral college.

One problem with ranked choice voting is that it takes too long to explain to voters when you're canvassing.  You don't have an extra 10 minutes every third voter.

STV works very well over here. And it makes for great drama during the count.

[Pat Mustard]

As a criteria, how about:

a) Must be 18+
b) Must be a citizen
c) Must have graduated general education (includes IQ test and citizenship lessons to be passed)
d) Must not be in prison
e) Must have completed mandatory 1 year citizen service
f) If between 18-50, must be eligible for conscription or a registered objector

Is this unfair?

First two only, with possibly a residence component as well.

[Pat Mustard]

Why 25+?

Citizen service is like national service, only not restricted to just military (so could be other forms of civic work, like police, or health service, or charity work etc).

Why 25? My guess is Ahriman is stupid enough to think Ramaswamy is a good candidate.

[The Grand Nudger]

Today in earning the vote news, voters in ohio passed two bills despite a constant stream of reich wing lies, intentionally misleading verbiage, and outright voter purges. The reich immediately explained that it has no intention of honoring the will of the voters. Instead, they plan to punish voters for being high information civic minded americans.