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Why so many marriages fail in the US
#51
RE: Why so many marriages fail in the US
(January 7, 2024 at 2:03 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote:
(January 6, 2024 at 3:55 pm)neil Wrote: The couples themselves who willingly, voluntarily, get married - it's literally what they say in their own vows.

The traditional marriage vow as an institution is a badly obsolete joke out of touch with progress and reality, and being pushed mainly by religions whose future is dim unless progress is halted and turned back to the level of Iron Age.

Yup.
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#52
RE: Why so many marriages fail in the US
(January 7, 2024 at 4:31 pm)neil Wrote: You're pointing out an interesting perspective on how marriage isn't compatible with what you refer to as "modern capitalism" & I'd say that I agree with it, but do you think this is a factor in an increase in divorce rates?

I certainly do. 

As people work harder for decreasing returns, every other part of our lives becomes devalued. There is less socializing -- church groups, bowling clubs, etc. Less family time.

This on top of the fact that capitalism requires the constant creation of new desires to go forward, and the sense that unless all of our personal desires have been fulfilled, we have missed out at life. 

The idea that we derive personal fulfillment from things like loyalty and duty, even when they don't give us happy feelings, seems to be largely a thing of the past. Sacrifice is a dirty word.
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#53
RE: Why so many marriages fail in the US
(January 6, 2024 at 8:30 pm)Astreja Wrote: People grow apart.  Their interests change.  Their life goals change.  Divorce is a perfectly reasonable solution when a relationship is bringing someone more pain than happiness.

(January 7, 2024 at 4:18 pm)neil Wrote: I guess one of the issues I have with divorce is that there's a huge waste of resources, such as the cost for a lawyer (and let's not forget that for each divorce there are 2 lawyers involved), and I'd like to see society find better & more useful ways of using those resources.

Well, when I got divorced in the early 2000s it cost me a grand total of $2500 CDN for lawyer fees, plus a couple of thousand for personal items that were never returned, plus a $15K loss on the house because the equity had to be split 50/50. Excellent investment - especially since on the day I left the relationship I was literally in fear for my life, and believe to this day that I would have been murdered had I stayed.
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#54
RE: Why so many marriages fail in the US
Does everyone want to get married?

Pros and cons?

On one hand, you get to wear a ring, on the other hand, you don't.
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#55
RE: Why so many marriages fail in the US
(January 7, 2024 at 8:37 pm)Astreja Wrote:
(January 6, 2024 at 8:30 pm)Astreja Wrote: People grow apart.  Their interests change.  Their life goals change.  Divorce is a perfectly reasonable solution when a relationship is bringing someone more pain than happiness.

(January 7, 2024 at 4:18 pm)neil Wrote: I guess one of the issues I have with divorce is that there's a huge waste of resources, such as the cost for a lawyer (and let's not forget that for each divorce there are 2 lawyers involved), and I'd like to see society find better & more useful ways of using those resources.

Well, when I got divorced in the early 2000s it cost me a grand total of $2500 CDN for lawyer fees, plus a couple of thousand for personal items that were never returned, plus a $15K loss on the house because the equity had to be split 50/50.  Excellent investment - especially since on the day I left the relationship I was literally in fear for my life, and believe to this day that I would have been murdered had I stayed.

When I got divorced in 2016, we agreed to go pro se and we paid a paralegal $400 to do the filings. I also lost some personal items and home equity but in the end it was well worth it to get away from my ex. What price tag can I place on my well being and happiness? I would do it again in a second to get away from an abusive partner.
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#56
RE: Why so many marriages fail in the US
(January 7, 2024 at 4:13 pm)neil Wrote:
(January 6, 2024 at 4:29 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: because marriage as you know it is a institution designed primarily in a more primitive age to perpetuate social hierarchy evolved to handle many communicable diseases for which there is no cure,  very high infant mortality,  and heavy reliance on greater upper body strength for economic productivity.     it is failing now because thanks to the habitual tendency to dictate based on made up reasons that characterizes religions, particularly overreaching expansionist imperial religions such as christianity,  it failed at all to evolve with human progress.

Interesting perspective & good points.

Would the concept of marriage already be obsolete if religious institutions didn't try to keep it on life support?

the concept or marriage would have evolved more quickly and in a more timely manner if the religious institutions didn’t see preservation of influence of obsolete institutions it dominates as being vital to the perseverance of its own influence.
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#57
RE: Why so many marriages fail in the US
I sometimes wish that my ex hadn't married me. At least one of us didn't do it for the right reasons...which probably coincides with why so many marriages fail. The state has a compelling interest in two people staying together and raising a productive taxpayer even if they fuckin -hate- each other, so they're never getting out of that market...but I do wish that people who didn't both love each other stayed out. Selfish and petty reasons, but I would have preferred never to have had to realize that someone settled for you, or was merely (and temporarily) infatuated.
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