Easy arguments against the Bible, and religion as a whole

[Jackalope]

THAT is a bare faced lie

and you did not explain why. did you read all my explinations, or just take that one phrase out of context?

I did, a few posts above this one. Your "explanations" (i.e. apologetic rationalizations) are bullshit.

[TheDarkestOfAngels]

let's look at some US federal laws then shall we?
a minor 12-16 years old at least 4 years younger than the person found guilty of this which is classified as "Sexual abuse of a minor or ward" can get anything from a fine to 15 years imprisonment.
other forms of sexual abuse (law does not use the word rape) can be anywhere from a fine to life in prison. how is this better? someone can get off with a fine or 5 years for rape.
source-
http://students.haverford.edu/masar/docu...peLaws.pdf

Unlike the Bible, US law makes room for 'technical' rape and perhaps the worst sort of rape you could imagine within the law - allowing sentencing to have a wide range of values depenidng upon the nature of the crime.
For example, in a state where the age of consent is 16, if a 20 year-old has consentual sex with a 15 year old, the older individual might get a fine and might not get his name on the sex offender registry.
If multiple pre-teen girls are gang-raped by several dozen men (perhaps a group working together) and then brutally murdered each of those individuals may get a range of sentences up to and including life in prison depending on a number of factors.

It's more fair because it allows the law to consider circumstances and doesn't unnecessarily punish the victim. It's a far more just system than stoning the victim to death for not screaming for help in a city.

the thing that makes black slavery different from others is b/c they weren't thought of as human. they were thought of as less than human. this is the main reason why it was so bad. they were taken as slaves b/c of the color of their skin. yes, other slavery took place that rivals this kind but none as abundant. that kind of slavery still exists today, though it's very rare.

No, Chip. It's not different at all. Before it was blacks, it was native americans in the US along with indentured servants from Europe. In Europe, there was all kinds of slavery from the surrounding nations and probably far more than I care to mention.
American slavery and treatment of black people is not unique at all.
If you need proof, feel free to do a cursory google search on the history of slavery. It's a rich topic. Go nuts.

there wasn't? come on you really think that? you really think when someone said you can play go play video games but not all day that they're encouraging it?

The main distinction between regular slavery and sex slavery is that one is general purpose and one is slavery for a specific purpose.
There's oodles of historical incidences both recent and otherwise of masters getting knocked up by and knocking up with their slaves.
A famous example is Thomas Jefferson, whose black children have been quite prolific since they were discovered to be his descendants.
Given that they were slaves, I have no idea how prolific rape is vs. consentual intercourse. It's very difficult to know how prolific intercourse is between slave and master - not to mention that records of such incidences are almost non-existent.
In my most pessimistic imaginings, I would imagine that it's not uncommon.

[chi pan]

I did, a few posts above this one. Your "explanations" (i.e. apologetic rationalizations) are bullshit.

well i spoke that as long as they are treated human it's not wrong, and i stated that inequality will always exist in society. though everyone has the right to persue their dreams, that doesn't mean it will happen. there will always be a lower class doing work to make rich life possible. this was not addressed.

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and i think i said that on a different thread btw

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and i think i said that on a different thread btw

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Unlike the Bible, US law makes room for 'technical' rape and perhaps the worst sort of rape you could imagine within the law - allowing sentencing to have a wide range of values depenidng upon the nature of the crime.

yes, but the problem with that is whoever has the better lawyer can get away with the most stuff.

[quoteDarkestOfAngels] No, Chip. It's not different at all. Before it was blacks, it was native americans in the US along with indentured servants from Europe. In Europe, there was all kinds of slavery from the surrounding nations and probably far more than I care to mention.
American slavery and treatment of black people is not unique at all.
If you need proof, feel free to do a cursory google search on the history of slavery. It's a rich topic. Go nuts.[/quote]

i'll acknowledge the Native American slavery as equal to that of black slavery though it was not popular b/c they could not endure as much as the black slaves could. they also died from a lot of European diseases.
it's not unique? is there any example of a common form of slavery that had such discrimination as the African American slavery?

The main distinction between regular slavery and sex slavery is that one is general purpose and one is slavery for a specific purpose.

yes but in the bible if you have sex with someone you must marry them. this is covered under the passage i referanced for rape punishment for virgins who were not betrothed. if they're your wife then they're not your slave and again, if such a thing is done it would be viewed as a very disgraceful thing.

A famous example is Thomas Jefferson, whose black children have been quite prolific since they were discovered to be his descendants.

yes well Thomas Jefferson also wanted to marry his slave, but he was advised against it. that was not at all popular back then.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

well i spoke that as long as they are treated human it's not wrong, and i stated that inequality will always exist in society.

Oh.


Are you arguing that it's moral to OWN another human as property,like say a horse, as long as he is treated humanely? (that is part of the definition of slavery)


To paraphrase Abe Lincoln: Perhaps you'd like to volunteer to be a slave?

I'm beginning to suspect you may be a complete fuckwit. I apologise IF I've misunderstood .

[SleepingDemon]

I wonder how Job's slaves and sons felt about dying so that miserable invisible douchebag could win a bet.

[chi pan]

Are you arguing that it's moral to OWN another human as property,like say a horse, as long as he is treated humanely?

at the time of the bible, it was like having a job and people would sell themselves for a temporary amount of time for money. they had laws against mistreatment of their slaves. they weren't ever treated as subhuman or if they were it was by the select few (just as people today mistreat their children dispite child protection laws). it was a way for them to make money even though they didn't have land as their job market did not have many options. so it was not wrong to own slaves but today we have a diverse job sector so we have no need for it.

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I wonder how Job's slaves and sons felt about dying so that miserable invisible douchebag could win a bet.

God takes people when he wants them but that does not take away from their rewards or their punishments. those children may have died but i'm sure they have their compensations in heaven.

[TheDarkestOfAngels]

yes, but the problem with that is whoever has the better lawyer can get away with the most stuff.

I'm not saying the various modern justice systems are perfect
I am saying it's both more just and more moral than the bible's justice and morality.
It's a feat that isn't too difficult to accomplish.

i'll acknowledge the Native American slavery as equal to that of black slavery though it was not popular b/c they could not endure as much as the black slaves could. they also died from a lot of European diseases.
it's not unique? is there any example of a common form of slavery that had such discrimination as the African American slavery?

Are you seriously attempting to argue about whose enslavement was worse than whose?
What sort of ass backwards arguement is that?

I'll grant you that history isn't my best subject, but I've seen contestants on "Are You Smarter Than a Fifth Grader" with a richer knowledge of history than this.

I'm not trying to make fun of you, but come on. I've even highlighted several times about the subjugation of the Jews by Egypt in the bible previously in my posts.
*IN THE BIBLE* as an example of slaves being treated poorly.
Not to mention that actual historical examples going back thousands of years all through human history. It's one of the oldest human practices.

Slaves didn't suddenly become dehumanized once the new world was found and there's literal butt-loads of literature on the topic both online and off.

yes but in the bible if you have sex with someone you must marry them. this is covered under the passage i referanced for rape punishment for virgins who were not betrothed. if they're your wife then they're not your slave and again, if such a thing is done it would be viewed as a very disgraceful thing.

Yes and no.
There are some examples of individuals just taking in concubines.
Others just get along with multiple wives.
Wives don't really have that much more freedom than slaves in the bible anyway.

[chi pan]

I'm not saying the various modern justice systems are perfect
I am saying it's both more just and more moral than the bible's justice and morality.
It's a feat that isn't too difficult to accomplish.

agreed that it is not perfect and that it is more just. i don't agree that it is morally better. many laws are very morally wrong which if i mention i'm sure it would start a political debate.

Are you seriously attempting to argue about whose enslavement was worse than whose?
What sort of ass backwards arguement is that?

same one that says some murders are more heinous than others. don't you agree?

I'm not trying to make fun of you, but come on. I've even highlighted several times about the subjugation of the Jews by Egypt in the bible previously in my posts.

yes, and this was wrong which is why God set them free. it never calls this kind of slavery good.

Others just get along with multiple wives.
Wives don't really have that much more freedom than slaves in the bible anyway.

yes, but the difference between slaves and wives is that God commands husbands to love their wives.

[TheDarkestOfAngels]

agreed that it is not perfect and that it is more just. i don't agree that it is morally better. many laws are very morally wrong which if i mention i'm sure it would start a political debate.

Some "morally wrong" laws don't make the bible morally better overall than the US justice system - asshat lawyers and politicians nonwithstanding.

same one that says some murders are more heinous than others. don't you agree?

Murder? yes. Slavery? no.
There are no circumstances in which slavery can be justified. You can't "enslave" someone in self defense.

yes, and this was wrong which is why God set them free. it never calls this kind of slavery good.

Except that he has also allowed moses and his armies to take slaves and wives from fallen enemies. He never outright says that slavery is necessarily bad either - but he isn't opposed to it and he even gives instructions on how to go about it.
Sounds to me like he just likes some humans more than others - allowing one group to escape slavery to fufill a purpose but he wasn't necessarily opposed to the general treatment of slaves outside of family and certain specific groups.j
Otherwise, it's open season.

yes, but the difference between slaves and wives is that God commands husbands to love their wives.

That doesn't really make them less property in treatment or otherwise.

[chi pan]

Murder? yes. Slavery? no.

why the double standard? murder is thought to be more heinous than slavery and yet there are different degrees of it. are some types of slavery not more wrong than others?

Except that he has also allowed moses and his armies to take slaves and wives from fallen enemies. He never outright says that slavery is necessarily bad either - but he isn't opposed to it and he even gives instructions on how to go about it.

this is something i'll look into more to get the whole story. thank you for challenging my faith.

That doesn't really make them less property in treatment or otherwise.

well they cannot be sold as property. it discourages physical punishment (why would you beat someone you love? and how does that show your love?). it puts them on more equal ground as a wife is not a servant and they aren't commanded to obey their husbands. it makes the husband care more about the person if she's his wife.