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RE: Cutting off the Last Straw from Religion - Fear of Hell - Two Quick Reasons to let go
July 25, 2025 at 2:52 pm
(June 11, 2025 at 4:46 am)Forever Sophist Wrote: (June 11, 2025 at 3:20 am)zebo-the-fat Wrote: It always amuses me when theists say "you must believe" because I don't. If I see convincing evidence I would believe (that's what "convincing" means) If you put a gun to my head I may say "I believe" and would probably follow all the rules and rituals, but I wouldn't truly believe.
Exactly. Christianity losing this last battle to me felt like the gun being removed followed by realizing it was imaginary the whole time...
I was terrified as a boy of 12 when I started losing my faith ... until one day a couple of years into it, it occurred to me that I simply didn't believe and that was the simple fact of the matter. That moment for me was liberating, as the weight of fear slid off my shoulders.
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RE: Cutting off the Last Straw from Religion - Fear of Hell - Two Quick Reasons to let go
July 25, 2025 at 2:57 pm
(July 25, 2025 at 1:24 pm)NeutralZone Wrote: (June 10, 2025 at 6:14 pm)Forever Sophist Wrote: When I was leaving Christianity as a young teen, I recall the last thing holding me back was the fear of hell. The point of this post is to show two quick reasons for those in this in-between state of religion and irreligion (specifically in regard to Christianity/Islam which threatens your eternal afterlife with punishment) and how you can move past this.
1. Fear is not a reason to believe + Belief is not something you can choose
If your idea of hell is literal fiery torment, let me assure you that there are no scriptures in the Judeo-Christian Bible in support of that.
... which is irrelevant to the thread. But since you mention it, why should an omnipotent god who's claimed to be perfectly merciful use the fear of eternal punishment to compel belief? Couldn't he find a better way to offer us salvation, such as accepting an apology or something? That shit's not so hard for me. Why is it so hard for the Christian god?
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RE: Cutting off the Last Straw from Religion - Fear of Hell - Two Quick Reasons to let go
July 25, 2025 at 3:03 pm
(July 25, 2025 at 2:57 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: (July 25, 2025 at 1:24 pm)NeutralZone Wrote: If your idea of hell is literal fiery torment, let me assure you that there are no scriptures in the Judeo-Christian Bible in support of that.
... which is irrelevant to the thread. But since you mention it, why should an omnipotent god who's claimed to be perfectly merciful use the fear of eternal punishment to compel belief? Couldn't he find a better way to offer us salvation, such as accepting an apology or something? That shit's not so hard for me. Why is it so hard for the Christian god?
I smell a free will argument coming…
Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
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RE: Cutting off the Last Straw from Religion - Fear of Hell - Two Quick Reasons to let go
July 25, 2025 at 5:02 pm
(July 25, 2025 at 3:03 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (July 25, 2025 at 2:57 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: ... which is irrelevant to the thread. But since you mention it, why should an omnipotent god who's claimed to be perfectly merciful use the fear of eternal punishment to compel belief? Couldn't he find a better way to offer us salvation, such as accepting an apology or something? That shit's not so hard for me. Why is it so hard for the Christian god?
I smell a free will argument coming…
Boru
... which is belied by the very existence of Hell, and the alleged fact that one's eternal soul is held hostage to compel belief. It ain't free will, unless we also call armed robbery free will.
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RE: Cutting off the Last Straw from Religion - Fear of Hell - Two Quick Reasons to let go
July 25, 2025 at 5:20 pm
The Free Will argument only works if you also subscribe to a god that's limited to a choice of two evils. Limited gods are bloody hilarious and not the sort of absurdity that smart theologians admit to in public.
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RE: Cutting off the Last Straw from Religion - Fear of Hell - Two Quick Reasons to let go
July 25, 2025 at 7:20 pm
(July 25, 2025 at 5:20 pm)Paleophyte Wrote: The Free Will argument only works if you also subscribe to a god that's limited to a choice of two evils. Limited gods are bloody hilarious and not the sort of absurdity that smart theologians admit to in public.
It also doesn’t work in a godverse where god created everything.
Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
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RE: Cutting off the Last Straw from Religion - Fear of Hell - Two Quick Reasons to let go
July 25, 2025 at 8:18 pm
(July 25, 2025 at 7:20 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (July 25, 2025 at 5:20 pm)Paleophyte Wrote: The Free Will argument only works if you also subscribe to a god that's limited to a choice of two evils. Limited gods are bloody hilarious and not the sort of absurdity that smart theologians admit to in public.
It also doesn’t work in a godverse where god created everything.
Boru
You know, if I was a god and I claimed to be "all good", every time one of my followers did something bad "in my name", I'd bitch-slap them all the way to Pluto.
Playing Cluedo with my mum while I was at Uni:
"You did WHAT? With WHO? WHERE???"
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RE: Cutting off the Last Straw from Religion - Fear of Hell - Two Quick Reasons to let go
July 25, 2025 at 9:43 pm
(This post was last modified: July 25, 2025 at 9:44 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(July 25, 2025 at 1:24 pm)NeutralZone Wrote: If your idea of hell is literal fiery torment, let me assure you that there are no scriptures in the Judeo-Christian Bible in support of that.
Other posters have already pointed you in their direction - but me...I wonder whether it even matters? The existence of any one kind of hell is going to have the same problems as any other kind of hell. It's not the kind of hell that's objectionable - it's that there's a hell at all.
I have a shitlist - I don't have a hell. You?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Cutting off the Last Straw from Religion - Fear of Hell - Two Quick Reasons to let go
July 25, 2025 at 10:33 pm
(July 25, 2025 at 8:18 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: (July 25, 2025 at 7:20 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: It also doesn’t work in a godverse where god created everything.
Boru
You know, if I was a god and I claimed to be "all good", every time one of my followers did something bad "in my name", I'd bitch-slap them all the way to Pluto.
Little fun in anything that straightforward, but you could get really creative with the smiting. Genital hedgehogs. The burrowing variety. There would be little doubt about who was in your bad books.
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RE: Cutting off the Last Straw from Religion - Fear of Hell - Two Quick Reasons to let go
July 25, 2025 at 10:33 pm
(This post was last modified: July 25, 2025 at 10:34 pm by Thumpalumpacus.)
(July 25, 2025 at 7:20 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (July 25, 2025 at 5:20 pm)Paleophyte Wrote: The Free Will argument only works if you also subscribe to a god that's limited to a choice of two evils. Limited gods are bloody hilarious and not the sort of absurdity that smart theologians admit to in public.
It also doesn’t work in a godverse where god created everything.
Boru
God, in Isaiah 45:7, was alleged to have Wrote:I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
He created Heaven, he created Hell, he created sin, he created the Department of Justice prosecuting offenses, and he created flawed humans he knew would be susceptible to temptation only to demand obeisance or eternal punishment despite his creations not being responsible for any of this.
"Free will"? My ass. Dumbass was asking a ball to roll uphill, while stacking the table against it.
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