Ten Reasons I'm Not a Christian

[Napoléon]

I find it hard to believe that you would disagree with jesus' teachings.

Agreeing with some of jebus's teachings doesn't make everything in the bible true does it? And you said yourself, it is outdated, so why take it seriously? Can you not come up with good morals by yourself? Are you incapable?

[organiccornflake]

I said that the OLD TESTIMENT is outdated; it is the new testament that applies to us now. I take it seriously because Jesus' teachings are the words of god, and even at a secular level, I wouldn't disagree with them.

I am not capable of coming up with morality by myself, and neither are you. Your morality is derived from a series of external sources (your friends, guardians, the society you live in, ect). And where do you suppose a society of super smart animals got there morality? The only reasonable answer is god. If you have another reasonable asnwer, feel free to answer it.

Also, it is not Jesus' morality that makes the bible true (although that reason enough to make people follow Jesus' teachings as just a means to better themselves), it's the historical evidence. Although, that is a whole different topic, and if you wish to discuss that please say so.

[LarissaAnn]

[quote='organiccornflake' pid='228703' dateline='1326654184']
I said that the OLD TESTIMENT is outdated; it is the new testament that applies to us now. I take it seriously because Jesus' teachings are the words of god, and even at a secular level, I wouldn't disagree with them.

I am not capable of coming up with morality by myself, and neither are you. Your morality is derived from a series of external sources (your friends, guardians, the society you live in, ect). And where do you suppose a society of super smart animals got there morality? The only reasonable answer is god. If you have another reasonable asnwer, feel free to answer it.

Also, it is not Jesus' morality that makes the bible true (although that reason enough to make people follow Jesus' teachings as just a means to better themselves), it's the historical evidence. Although, that is a whole different topic, and if you wish to discuss that please say so.
[/quote

My morality comes from the things I've been through and survived which have as a result taught me to be a good person to others, so yes I can find my own morality.

[Napoléon]

The only reasonable answer is god. If you have another reasonable asnwer, feel free to answer it.

No. What you meant to say was the only answer you can imagine in your sad excuse for a brain is god. The REAL reasonable answer is that morality comes from millions of years of social evolution.

[DeistPaladin]

And where do you suppose a society of super smart animals got there morality? The only reasonable answer is god. If you have another reasonable asnwer, feel free to answer it.

This song and dance is getting tiresome.

The secular understanding of morality is as a function of how we treat our fellow sentient beings. Because humans are social animals that gain their strength by forming communities, evolution has ensured we have a sense of empathy and fair play. You are free to believe that God gave us this conscience but invoking a deity does nothing to advance our understanding of what morality is. Investigating the "social contract" does a better job of that. We don't advocate the mistreatment of other beings as we would not wish to be treated. Otherwise, we would be guilty of hypocrisy.

By contrast, the vapid religious assertion of God-Verb-It (GodWillsIt, GodWantsIt, GodIsIt, GodDidIt, GodDoesIt, etc.) does little to elucidate our understanding of morality beyond the infantile "cause I said so" (an explanation we never found satisfying even as children, never mind as grown ups). Additionally, this appeal to authority/consequences leads to pitfalls of circular logic. In depth discussion of this line of thinking either exposes mindless subservience (ala the poster Statler-Waldorf on this forum) which is not an objective or absolute standard of morality by definition, or else it reveals the bare assertion that Yahweh is the embodiment of goodness and by circular reasoning and contrived definitions we can "know" that Yahweh is good and what he commands is good (see Ryft's philoso-babble posts).

All this is to say nothing of the fact that this argument does nothing to validate Christianity or even whether the Christian god is the real God. This appeal to consequences, beyond it's fallacious nature, could just as easily be applied to Islam or any other theistic religion. To your credit, you admit as much:

Also, it is not Jesus' morality that makes the bible true...

But then you go on to assert:

...it's the historical evidence. Although, that is a whole different topic, and if you wish to discuss that please say so.

I'm curious if you are willing to defend the highlights of the OT's take on history. These would be primarily:

1. The Garden of Eden
2. The global flood and the assertion that two of any species is sufficient to save it from extinction.
3. The tower that could reach up into Heaven.
4. The Jewish population explosion in Egypt (hint: every Jewish woman would have needed to be constantly pregnant with twins).
5. The ten plagues of Egypt
6. The 40 years in the Sinai
7. The bloody path to the promised land
8. The Davidic empire

Here's your rope. Just toss it over that beam...

[Minimalist]

He paid the price of homosexuality; therefore the death penalty for homosexuality no longer applies.

And who the fuck are you to question your "god's" own words?

Remember, you believe this shit....not me.

For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

Matthew 5:18 ...you know...part of your fucking gospels.

In case you forgot...all is not fulfilled. Your godboy still hasn't come back. You keep talking like you are and your god will take a big shit on your head for doubting his word.

This is your problem. I doubt he was ever here the first time.

[LarissaAnn]

I said that the OLD TESTIMENT is outdated; it is the new testament that applies to us now. I take it seriously because Jesus' teachings are the words of god, and even at a secular level, I wouldn't disagree with them.

I am not capable of coming up with morality by myself, and neither are you. Your morality is derived from a series of external sources (your friends, guardians, the society you live in, ect). And where do you suppose a society of super smart animals got there morality? The only reasonable answer is god. If you have another reasonable asnwer, feel free to answer it.

Also, it is not Jesus' morality that makes the bible true (although that reason enough to make people follow Jesus' teachings as just a means to better themselves), it's the historical evidence. Although, that is a whole different topic, and if you wish to discuss that please say so.

Actually no, Jesus' teachings do not give me my sense of morality. All the things I've been through and survived in life have given my morality to do good and treat people with kindness. No book, let alone a 2000 year old book, can teach or inspire more than actual experience can.

[Minimalist]

Actually no, Jesus' teachings do not give me my sense of morality.

How could they when his fucking followers do such a shit job of living up to them?

[DeistPaladin]

Actually no, Jesus' teachings do not give me my sense of morality.

How could they when his fucking followers do such a shit job of living up to them?

Why should they. Sin is inevitable. Since they're sinners, they can't help but sin. Fortunately, Jesus will forgive them again and again. So they can sin, be forgiven and repeat.

[Minimalist]

Convenient, huh?