Afghanistan..troops out NOW!

[bozo]

Do you agree that the army is chosen as a career by a majority who have very little other career options?
Re. hindsight, were the weapons inspectors allowed to conclude their inspections or not, before the invasion started?

Irrelevant. They signed on the dotted line.
And 'sides, where else do you get to shoot a really big gun at moving targets?

Re: hindsight, dunno, don't care. I personally wasn't interested in the WMDs. I was more interested in scrubbing some seriously threatening theists out of humanity. The rest of you are relatively harmless.

"Them's" some serious theists and pose a serious threat to the very lives of innocent folks who just happen to believe something else.

Targets worthy of them expensive bullets Uncle Sam gave us.

I think further debate is pretty pointless. You are top-notch cannon-fodder material. Ain't Uncle Sam lucky you're not alone!

[northumbrian66]

Withdrawal is the easy option. However, to Muslims this will appear as weakness and just encourage more outrages in not only against the west but against other Muslims. Most people in the west simply cannot comprehend that Islam means to conquer the world for Allah and those that dont agree must be killed. I abhor the deaths of our troops out there but they are fighting against a ruthless theorcratic enemy. I despair when I hear the calls for the west to pull out of Afganistan, Iraq, leave Israel to its fate against its aggresive neighbours and allow Iran nuclear weapons etc etc. Should all this come to pass it will not bring a new age of understanding between cultures but more and more demands from Muslims for us to conform to their world view or perish. Read the Quran its all in there: 'He who will not convert then kill him'!! Do not be fooled by supposed 'Moderate Muslims' They want the same thing as the extremists but are prepared to go more slowly by nibbling away at our secular society.

[bozo]

Withdrawal is the easy option. However, to Muslims this will appear as weakness and just encourage more outrages in not only against the west but against other Muslims. Most people in the west simply cannot comprehend that Islam means to conquer the world for Allah and those that dont agree must be killed. I abhor the deaths of our troops out there but they are fighting against a ruthless theorcratic enemy. I despair when I hear the calls for the west to pull out of Afganistan, Iraq, leave Israel to its fate against its aggresive neighbours and allow Iran nuclear weapons etc etc. Should all this come to pass it will not bring a new age of understanding between cultures but more and more demands from Muslims for us to conform to their world view or perish. Read the Quran its all in there: 'He who will not convert then kill him'!! Do not be fooled by supposed 'Moderate Muslims' They want the same thing as the extremists but are prepared to go more slowly by nibbling away at our secular society.

I despair when I hear the sentiments you are expressing! Withdrawal from an unwinnable war is common sense. Unfortunately, politicians who hold saving face above saving lives are not blessed with it.
Afghanistan is 21st century Vietnam. Do you really want to continue down that kind of road, sacrificing young lives for nothing?
You echo our government over the perceived danger. Do you really think the situation is the same as what was at stake with Hitler? I don't. WW2 had to be fought and won...it was a " just " war.
Afghanistan is not in the same league.
You claim every muslim wants world world domination. I say that is bollocks. A small percentage of " extremists " exist in all groupings.
I'll give you one thing, given the age of Islam, the muslims are certainly going slowly to achieve their ends!
And in the personal, would you like to see any of your family sacrificed? If you were of fighting age, would you think making the ultimate sacrifice was worth it?

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

You claim every muslim wants world world domination. I say that is bollocks.

Indeed:There is no evidence to support that canard accepted by the ignorant,gullible and hysterical. The age of Muslim conquest through armed jihad began during the life of Muhammud, and continued for about 100 years after his death. Then IT STOPPED. The same cannot be said for Christianity.


My observation from a reasonable amount of world travel is that the average person isn't all that interested in any kind of conflict,armed or otherwise. It is the fanatic,always in the minority who wants to take up arms and kill people who do not think/believe as he does.

I've watched the mindless demonisation of Islam over several years with a kind of horrified fascination,which has reinforced my existential misanthropy.Not because of the behaviour of a few thousand Muslim fanatics.Rather because of the cynical politicians,our religious nuts and conspiracy fruitcakes who have conned millions of people into making Islam and Muslims the bogey man de jour.


My perception is that the terrorism as we know it is reactive,not proactive. Had America invaded MY country,I would support ANY means to get them to leave.So too would I support any action against Israel were I Palestinian. One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter.

Once you accept violence as a legitimate means to an end you unleash the whirlwind. In modern wars,there are almost invariably more civilian deaths than that of combatants. That was the case in WW2, Vietnam, Bosnia, and now in Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine and Israel.

[Pippy]

Never have you said anything that I have found so moving and perfect.

I could not have expressed that point any better Padraic.

Thanks a lot,
-Pip

[Dotard]

Please explain what made WWII a 'just' war that HAD to be fought and why Iraq and Afghan are not.

[Pippy]

The nature of the conflict.
The axis powers of WW2 posed a threat.
The dirty middle eastern countries do not.

Holland was liberated, but somehow I think it looked a lot different to the liberation of Baghdad...
-Pip

[Dotard]

Posed a threat to whom?

These 'dirty middle eastern' countries were slaughtering folks for their beliefs or lack of beliefs or for giving their opinions on their government, or losing a soccer game.

Remember when Hitler first started his rampaging? What was America saying? "They're no threat to us."

...to us I believe is the operative words here. Kinda like me witnessing a bad-guy bust into your home, shoot you, rape your daughter, burn your home and I do nothing. Why should I? The baddy is no threat to me.

I'm positive if it were you or your loved ones living in one of these "dirty middle eastern" countries you would be quite convinced of their threat.


"Daddy? Why doesn't anyone come help us and stop those evil men?"
'Well daughter, Pippy is in charge of that now and it if ain't directly threating him or his loved ones, we might as well forget about any help from there.'
"But Daddy! What are we gonna do?!?"

'We die.'

[bozo]

Please explain what made WWII a 'just' war that HAD to be fought and why Iraq and Afghan are not.

Hitler's fascist regime was one of the most evil in history. He had declared war. He had invaded countries. He was about to invade my own country. We had to fight...it was just.
The invasion of Iraq was illegal. It was unnecessary. We were told various reasons why it had to be done and none of them won over majority opinion. The last big lie was the one about wmd. It was never about the Iraqi people...it was about oil though.
Afghanistan is another example of differing reasons being offered at different times to try to justify it.
The lastest we are told is to stop us having to fight the Taliban in our own country!! Total bollocks.
Again, it isn't about ordinary Afghani people.
Both Iraq and Afghanistan are examples of how selective your country is as to where and when it gets involved. And like Vietnam, it will rue the day it got involved this time.

[Dotard]

There ya go. Hiter was about to invade YOUR country. Hence why you feel strongly he had to be stopped.

Saddam was just as evil, if not more so, as Hitler was. Saddam invaded a neighboring country, but somehow he didn't need to be fought against? Somehow it was unnecessary to remove him in the same manner as the allies removed Hitler?

I care not you think everything that comes from the government, concerning Iraq and Afghan, is a lie. I care not if the gummit fudged to the people, because people are apathetic and don't give a fuk about brown people in a 'dirty middle eastern country' (fukin thinly veiled racist statement there IMO) and will only raise an eye lid if they feel them or their loved ones are threatened.