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RE: I am a pro-life atheist
February 26, 2012 at 9:15 pm
(February 26, 2012 at 2:22 pm)Tiberius Wrote: Anyone can troll, even "elder" members. I don't think you're a troll; I just think you like to bully people.
Especially "elder" members 
Wonder why nobody ever accuses me of trolling... or do they?
I like to think it's because I add half a something of a genuine thought with every fifth sentence
Anyway, I wasn't there, so I'm unsure of which one of you is right (or both, or neither). That said, it's probably available somewhere... I've grown tired of defending revvie from his own insulting bullheadedness.
Please give me a home where cloud buffalo roam
Where the dear and the strangers can play
Where sometimes is heard a discouraging word
But the skies are not stormy all day
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RE: I am a pro-life atheist
February 26, 2012 at 9:16 pm
Troll.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: I am a pro-life atheist
February 26, 2012 at 9:17 pm
(This post was last modified: February 26, 2012 at 9:33 pm by Violet.)
(February 26, 2012 at 2:31 pm)Insanity x Wrote: So I should sit and be scared and not voice my opinion.. because you two have power.. That's absolute bullshit.. And somehow the amount of posts I have has a direct impact on the validity of my argument? Nice one..
Excuse me for not caring about your threats...
New guy's sexy... I like it! 
(February 26, 2012 at 9:16 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Troll.
That's better!!! 
(February 26, 2012 at 2:41 pm)Tiberius Wrote: In that case how about a truce? You stop calling me a racist, because even I think you don't honestly believe that (you think I'm naive, sure, but naivety =/= racism). I'll stop calling you a liar / cyberbully. Next time our beliefs come into conflict, let's try to keep both our tempers down and discuss things like men, and when someone makes the accusation of straw-manning, give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that maybe you (or I) read their argument wrong.
What's up with all these fantastic ideas recently?
It must be something you ate, Tiberius
Hey Shelly: You called this a 'new members' thread... does that mean you don't want me to make any asinine remarks to their discussion?
(February 26, 2012 at 2:44 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote: Im being easy on him.
Power trip huh? yeah, because i have so much power on this forum.
And I'm being easy on all of you. Not that I'm ever not easy. Easygoing, easy hookup, easy talker, easychair when you are tired...
Never underestimate the power of ideas... they can cause forum drama and make people angry with the staff.
* Violet the thought-policewoman patrols the forum at ease.
Quote:If he wants to jump into this argument cluster fuck then more power to him. If he calls me a troll I will verbally spank him.
"I like it rough"... it's why I like jumping into clusterfucks
(February 26, 2012 at 5:02 pm)NoMoreFaith Wrote: (February 26, 2012 at 4:56 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote: Shouldnt you be scared of me? Seeing that im such a big bully and all.
Then again, Im union...shouldnt I be called a "thug" instead of a bully?
I am a bit scared tbh. After all you have much more than 200 posts 
Don't be scared: I'LL PROTECT YOU!
...
I have more posts than he does, and a purple username. Just what is it that you think I can't do?
If you add the normal member color and Administrator colors together... YOU GET PURPLE! 
For all you know... I could change every one of his future posts to "Tickle-me Elmo is my favorite sex toy."
(February 26, 2012 at 6:33 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote: If I can tell a woman what she can do with her womb, then it would be only fair if she can tell me what I can do with my beans and frank.
Eat them.
Please give me a home where cloud buffalo roam
Where the dear and the strangers can play
Where sometimes is heard a discouraging word
But the skies are not stormy all day
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RE: I am a pro-life atheist
February 27, 2012 at 2:08 am
(February 26, 2012 at 12:12 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote: (February 26, 2012 at 2:29 am)Undeceived Wrote: (February 24, 2012 at 6:20 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote: (February 24, 2012 at 3:09 pm)Undeceived Wrote: So you're saying yes, it's human life, but as long as that life is within your physical confines you can do with it whatever you please? If I put a midget in my stomach would I automatically have supreme power over he/she? You'll say I had the choice to put it there, but so does the woman.
It is the womans umbilical cord...she can cut it for any reason...ANY REASON.
You’re working on your third-story roof with a friend. He slips but just catches hold of an electrical cord. He’s hanging thirty feet over a concrete sidewalk. Do you have the right to cut the cord? It’s yours.
And yes, there you go again. Compairing apples and oranges.
Is the extension chord biologically connected to me?
No.
Is the extension chord sapping my nutrients and giving them to the other man?
No.
Did the other man come about from the very biological building blocks of my body?
No.
Is the man currently inside of my body and part of my body?
No.
So being biologically connected gives you power over another individual's rights? I don't think Siamese twins are allowed to murder each other.
No one gets an abortion simply because their nutrients are being sapped. A person is a person. You don't want to share your food? Don't have a kid. (You're not arguing about rape victims so neither am I.)
It seems we're having trouble putting a definition on "person," and when a baby becomes one. Think about this: 50% of the time the baby is a different gender from the mother, and 50% of the time they have a different blood type. A pregnant woman goes in for a blood transfusion. She says, "I need A positive for myself and O negative in here." She points to her belly. "And by the way, it's a male." Are you telling me that baby is still only tissue? Where do you draw the line? Is a baby tissue at 24 weeks but a human being at 24 weeks and 1 day? How can you tell?
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RE: I am a pro-life atheist
February 27, 2012 at 4:07 am
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RE: I am a pro-life atheist
February 27, 2012 at 4:11 am
(This post was last modified: February 27, 2012 at 4:14 am by Violet.)
Undecieved Wrote:So being biologically connected gives you power over another individual's rights? I don't think Siamese twins are allowed to murder each other.
Siamese twins are not necessarily equally connected... infact, sometimes only a tiny fraction of the whole makes up the second person (if they are even that).
Furthermore, it is not simply 'biological connectedness' which I believe gives the mother complete dominion over whether the parasite in her womb. If she were to cut off her arm, the detached arm would be quickly dead. There is zero chance of survival, regardless of how much effort is made to take care of it. If she were to cut off a fetus, the detached fetus would be quickly dead. There is zero chance of survival, regardless of how much effort is made to take care of it.
It is not until that fetus has become a baby that it will be able to live when not leeching off the mother regardless of her say (and importantly: have any chance of growth). I am against aborting babies, I am 100% for aborting a fetus should you feel like it.
Quote:No one gets an abortion simply because their nutrients are being sapped. A person is a person. You don't want to share your food? Don't have a kid. (You're not arguing about rape victims so neither am I.)
A pig is a person. There is no facet of personality that we posses which pigs do not. Personality = personhood.
Last time I checked we had no problem with the mass slaughter of pigs, and chopping them up into bacon and other fun meaty goods.
I just don't 'get' how people jump from human is human and person is person to human is person. There is exactly zero person left in some braindead creature.
Quote:It seems we're having trouble putting a definition on "person," and when a baby becomes one. Think about this: 50% of the time the baby is a different gender from the mother, and 50% of the time they have a different blood type. A pregnant woman goes in for a blood transfusion. She says, "I need A positive for myself and O negative in here." She points to her belly. "And by the way, it's a male." Are you telling me that baby is still only tissue? Where do you draw the line? Is a baby tissue at 24 weeks but a human being at 24 weeks and 1 day? How can you tell?
I've never had trouble putting a definition on 'person'. 'Any single being with personality' (arbitrary definition for now) is a person, whether they be extraterrestrial, aquatic, transdimensional, deities, non-human earth animals, or Zerg. And this is not a question of when a baby becomes one... a human baby is (with few exceptions) a person. A human fetus on the other hand, is not (with few exceptions) a person. Personhood is, for me, a key element of difference between what I can kill and what I need (increasingly as depth increases) good reason to kill. I would never kill a baby dog, human, pig, dolphin, elephant, or any of the adult versions of these creatures... without very good reason to.
I am telling you that a fetus is as much a person as my left ankle. Albeit that was a lie, since my left ankle is Susan, and has quite a personality (much to my displeasure). I draw the line wherever the fuck I want, and I hold that it is applicable women's prerogative as to what is right by them. Because you know what? I'm easy. What's right by me is cool, and what's right by them is cool, so long as neither of us gets in the way of a person equally as entitled to make decisions for themselves as they are.
Other women are usually kind of lucky in that they can even have the choice to have a baby. I'd want one, such a pity I can't be blessed to have this decision, no matter how hard I try.
Nobody seems to care about my opinions in this thread, figured I'd bust into the conversation with a position nobody else here had.
They asked for serious discussion and debate of abortion... should have been more careful what they wished for
Please give me a home where cloud buffalo roam
Where the dear and the strangers can play
Where sometimes is heard a discouraging word
But the skies are not stormy all day
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RE: I am a pro-life atheist
February 27, 2012 at 9:22 am
(February 24, 2012 at 1:07 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote: If you travel to Hindu lands, such as India, then surely it is murder to kill the sacred cow, as it is illegal.
No, it isn't.
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RE: I am a pro-life atheist
February 27, 2012 at 9:33 am
(February 27, 2012 at 2:08 am)Undeceived Wrote: So being biologically connected gives you power over another individual's rights? I don't think Siamese twins are allowed to murder each other.
No one gets an abortion simply because their nutrients are being sapped. A person is a person. You don't want to share your food? Don't have a kid. (You're not arguing about rape victims so neither am I.)
It seems we're having trouble putting a definition on "person," and when a baby becomes one. Think about this: 50% of the time the baby is a different gender from the mother, and 50% of the time they have a different blood type. A pregnant woman goes in for a blood transfusion. She says, "I need A positive for myself and O negative in here." She points to her belly. "And by the way, it's a male." Are you telling me that baby is still only tissue? Where do you draw the line? Is a baby tissue at 24 weeks but a human being at 24 weeks and 1 day? How can you tell?
The siamese twins gambit. Is that another example of gods grace and compassion, horrendous physical deformity? One of the risks that they take if they decide (or their parents decide) to separate is death, so yeah, they actually are. That isn't murder though, and neither is abortion.
How do we decide this? Like so.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roe_v._Wade
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: I am a pro-life atheist
February 27, 2012 at 9:52 am
(February 27, 2012 at 2:08 am)Undeceived Wrote: So being biologically connected gives you power over another individual's rights? I don't think Siamese twins are allowed to murder each other.
Read the argument again. It is not biological connection that gives one the power over another, it's biological dependence.
(February 27, 2012 at 2:08 am)Undeceived Wrote: No one gets an abortion simply because their nutrients are being sapped. A person is a person. You don't want to share your food? Don't have a kid. (You're not arguing about rape victims so neither am I.)
Exactly. Don't have the kid. Abort it.
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RE: I am a pro-life atheist
February 27, 2012 at 10:11 am
(February 27, 2012 at 4:11 am)Vaeolet Lilly Blossom Wrote: I am telling you that a fetus is as much a person as my left ankle. Albeit that was a lie, since my left ankle is Susan, and has quite a personality (much to my displeasure). I draw the line wherever the fuck I want, and I hold that it is applicable women's prerogative as to what is right by them. Because you know what? I'm easy. What's right by me is cool, and what's right by them is cool, so long as neither of us gets in the way of a person equally as entitled to make decisions for themselves as they are.
I agree none of my business what a woman does with her body and I don't consider a fetus to be a person.
(February 27, 2012 at 4:11 am)Vaeolet Lilly Blossom Wrote: Other women are usually kind of lucky in that they can even have the choice to have a baby. I'd want one, such a pity I can't be blessed to have this decision, no matter how hard I try.
Nobody seems to care about my opinions in this thread, figured I'd bust into the conversation with a position nobody else here had.
 <3
(February 27, 2012 at 4:11 am)Vaeolet Lilly Blossom Wrote: They asked for serious discussion and debate of abortion... should have been more careful what they wished for
* Nine begs for mercy
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