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RE: Origin of Articles
June 9, 2012 at 6:34 pm
(June 9, 2012 at 11:44 am)Faith No More Wrote: The fail is strong with this one.
Science produces results; religion produces platitudes. The scientific method has been proven over and over to produce truthful results, so whether or not there is a reason for the uniformity does not invalidate the fact that we can detect uninformity.
Science does produce results and consistent ones too. We all have the same evidence but its interpreted according to our personal worldviews because of presuppositions. Allow me to remind you that science DISCOVERS the uniformity ALREADY in place.
(June 9, 2012 at 11:44 am)Faith No More Wrote: I think a better analogy, to use the strawberry ice cream again, would be if you ask a child why they are eating the ice cream. They respond that it tastes good and you respond with the question of why it tastes good. Having no working knowledge of the brain and its senses, they respond that they don't know, but every time they taste strawberry ice cream, it tastes good. Therefore, they have inferred that every time they eat ice cream it will taste good. What you are proposing is the child should stop eating the ice cream until they can prove why it tates good, and that since they can't prove why, the ice cream tastes good because god exists.
Science produces results; religion produces platitudes.
Am I talking to a small child???
I would expect arbitrariness from a small child but not from someone attempting to defend their faith in evolution. Don't you have justification for your beliefs???
BTW: my favorite is mint chocolate chip ice cream with lots of hersey's chocolate!
James Holmes acted consistent with what evolution teaches. He evolved from an animal, and when he murdered those people, He acted like one. You can't say he's wrong since evolution made him that way.
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RE: Origin of Articles
June 9, 2012 at 6:36 pm
Evolution is not a fucking faith! When will that get past your thick skull?
If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. - J.R.R Tolkien
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RE: Origin of Articles
June 9, 2012 at 6:40 pm
(This post was last modified: June 9, 2012 at 6:42 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(June 9, 2012 at 6:34 pm)elunico13 Wrote: Science does produce results and consistent ones too. We all have the same evidence but its interpreted according to our personal worldviews because of presuppositions. Allow me to remind you that science DISCOVERS the uniformity ALREADY in place.
If i were to presuppose that waffles made it rain, how do you think science would handle that? Does science presuppose uniformity or does it record the uniformity -already in place-? If science "presupposed" uniformity and then found none, what would it do?
Quote:Am I talking to a small child???
I would expect arbitrariness from a small child but not from someone attempting to defend their faith in evolution. Don't you have justification for your beliefs???
BTW: my favorite is mint chocolate chip ice cream with lots of hersey's chocolate!
Please, kindly point to any place in Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection that requires faith. I don't think that you understand which bit is the observation and which bit is the theory amigo.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Origin of Articles
June 9, 2012 at 10:37 pm
elunico13 Wrote:Am I talking to a small child???
I would expect arbitrariness from a small child but not from someone attempting to defend their faith in evolution. Don't you have justification for your beliefs???
No, you are talking to an adult. The small child you think you hear is the echoing of your own stupidity.
Are your mental processes so inept that you cannot understand that one does not have to understand why something works to understand how it works? A person does not need to understand why there is a gravitational pull between two separate masses to understand that a gravitational pull between two masses occurs. One does not need to understand why a refrigerator keeps their food cold to understand that the refrigerator keeps their food cold. One does not need to understand why a car moves from one place to another to understand that a car can move from one place to another.
I'm afraid I have nothing more to add to this conversation, because if you don't understand this, I can't dumb it down for you any further.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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RE: Origin of Articles
June 9, 2012 at 11:53 pm
(June 9, 2012 at 6:22 pm)elunico13 Wrote: If your going to use logic to explain anything than you have to have justification for you belief in things being logical. We should expect arbitrariness from a small child, but not from someone defending a faith in evolution.
If we don't need justification for our beliefs then anyone can assert arbitrarily something completely contradictory, but that would get us nowhere.
Did I answer your question???
The use of logic =/= a belief.
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
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RE: Origin of Articles
June 9, 2012 at 11:58 pm
(This post was last modified: June 10, 2012 at 12:00 am by The Grand Nudger.)
What a desperate little shell game that is btw, after thousands of years of failing to elevate their beliefs to the level of things like science or logic they have resorted to a last ditch attempt to bring everything else down to their level instead.
Rather than going through the trouble of demonstrating that their beliefs are scientifically sound, science is just a belief.
Rather than going through the trouble of demonstrating why their beliefs are logically valid, logic is just a belief.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Origin of Articles
June 10, 2012 at 12:13 am
(This post was last modified: June 10, 2012 at 12:23 am by Cyberman.)
But faith is a virtue, apparently... except when it isn't.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Origin of Articles
June 10, 2012 at 9:48 am
(This post was last modified: June 10, 2012 at 9:51 am by elunico13.)
(June 9, 2012 at 11:58 pm)Rhythm Wrote: What a desperate little shell game that is btw, after thousands of years of failing to elevate their beliefs to the level of things like science or logic they have resorted to a last ditch attempt to bring everything else down to their level instead.
Rather than going through the trouble of demonstrating that their beliefs are scientifically sound, science is just a belief.
Rather than going through the trouble of demonstrating why their beliefs are logically valid, logic is just a belief.
You still haven't given a valid reason why science should work in your personal evolutionary worldview.
You have no reason to believe any given experiment would produce the same result in the future as it has in the past.
You're taking for granted the law of uniformity upheld by our creator. Gen 8:22 for example.
Good luck because your peers haven't.
Any other response to this post that doesn't address this issue would just continue to prove my point.
(June 10, 2012 at 12:13 am)Stimbo Wrote: But faith is a virtue, apparently... except when it isn't.
You definitely don't want a blind faith. Why don't you help Rhythm out.
James Holmes acted consistent with what evolution teaches. He evolved from an animal, and when he murdered those people, He acted like one. You can't say he's wrong since evolution made him that way.
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RE: Origin of Articles
June 10, 2012 at 10:06 am
So, because we don't know why the universe shows uniformity, it automatically means goddidit? Prove that this is the case. You are making the positive claim that a creator (god) gave the universe uniformity, so you must first show that a god exists, then show that this god gave the universe uniformity. Anything short of that is just backpeddling and completely unfounded. You can assert your shit all you like, but you have to show it to be true before you are taken seriously.
If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. - J.R.R Tolkien
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RE: Origin of Articles
June 10, 2012 at 10:09 am
(June 10, 2012 at 9:48 am)elunico13 Wrote: You still haven't given a valid reason why science should work in your personal evolutionary worldview.
You have no reason to believe any given experiment would produce the same result in the future as it has in the past.
You're taking for granted the law of uniformity upheld by our creator. Gen 8:22 for example.
Good luck because your peers haven't.
Any other response to this post that doesn't address this issue would just continue to prove my point.
At what point am I required to do so? Why it should or shouldn't work has very little bearing on the fact that it does.
We do actually have a mountain of reasons to assume that a given experiment with identical variables will return similar or identical results. That's one of the requirements of the scientific method btw (and you should know that if you're going to argue against it, shouldn't you). You report your activities to your peers and they then attempt to replicate both the experiment and the findings. However, there is always the caveat of provisional certitude which does allow for everything to mysteriously stop working at any point -however improbable. When satellites fall out of the sky you go ahead and inform us.
Your creator upholds nothing unless you can demonstrate that it exists in the first place. A before b.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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