Atheist vegans?

[Diamond]

Isn't that a form of equivocation thou, ...No, you never said dairy and eggs are too good, but Yes, the alternatives are not as good as dairy or eggs.

Well, some vegans claim that alternatives actually taste better. Which leads me to believe that either I have higher standards or I'm just a horrible cook.

If you have a moral issue with dairy and eggs, isn't the answer simply to do without, not wait until an alternative turns up.

Truth be told, I don't really eat it all that much (and I apologize for any confusion if at any point I made it sound like I 'nom' on nothing but dairy and eggs).

[Creed of Heresy]

Ahhh, veganism...this is always one of the most fun topics to participate in because it's basically a "first world problem" argument. Only in the developed world can someone actively choose to decide what subcategory of food they wish to eat. We're so spoiled that we can literally look at an entire section of the grocery store and say "I will never eat this because of my guilt" and yet never have a single problem finding food to suit their tastes. This isn't a BAD thing, of course. I do get rather irate with the ones who take up a holier-than-thou stance on it, though, and there's plenty of them to go around. A lot of vegans nowadays complain about people making the "People Eating Tasty Animals" jokes but I always love to remind them that it's a reaction, not an instigation. It was the vegans who started buying billboards claiming moral superiority, the vegans who started screaming at someone for "eating flesh," it was the vegans who started saying that all animals are somehow equal to humans [sorry, it doesn't work that way in the food chain] and deserve equal rights and status as humans [despite their inability to reason], it was the vegans who started going on the news with their noses so high in the air they can smell what deodorant god is wearing and blithering endlessly about what a great thing they were doing and how they "lived a guilt-free life." Really? What about the fucking plants you're killing? Plants are living, and in fact most of them are still alive when you eat them, don't say you live a guilt-free life because life requires taking other life, whether it's plants or animals, just because it can't yelp when you yank it out of the ground doesn't mean it doesn't feel. Shit, there's been a bunch of scientific tests run that suggest plants can actually 'feel' to an extent. Think about that the next time you are eating your "guilt-free" salad of still-living plant matter.

But yes, it was the vegans who started that shit, now they whine when omnivores such as myself start openly mocking them with comments about bacon and eating tasty animals. You started it, we got sick of it, now we mock it. Whenever you start throwing your ideals and beliefs into peoples' faces, they're going to react. Go ahead and flick water in someone's face. Chances are good they'll retaliate by flicking water back at you, either at that moment or later.

I don't participate in that initially, mind you. I need someone to throw their veganism in my face before I start mocking them. I don't frown on the lifestyle itself, though. Me, I LIKE veggies. I like food in general. I love flavor, it's why I love to cook. If someone becomes a vegan because they just don't like the flavor or texture of the products, I can totally understand that. If people have a problem with just eating an animal, I can understand that, too; I would struggle to kill a cow or a chicken myself, too, because I've grown up always having someone else do it for me in a way I've never seen, though to acclimate myself to it, I've been watching videos and documentaries of slaughterhouses so I can at least see the animals being butchered. I figure I might as well show some respect somehow to the creatures dying to feed me, and eating them vicariously is kind of "oh shoulder the responsibility and burden for me" cowardice. I've sworn that sometime in my life I will go to a farm and butcher my own cow [there's a ton of cattleyards and dairyfarms up here and a bunch of them let you pick, purchase, and slaughter your own beef]. Hey, if I'm going to be needing to deal with fresh ingredients, I'm gonna need to know this stuff.

But if you choose to be a vegan for moral reasons, I start rolling my eyes, though I won't say anything until inevitably the individual who just selected "morality" as their reason begins to talk about it and explain to me why they, in their minds anyway, are so much better than I am. That's...when the gloves come off. But that's the only time.

---

Well, some vegans claim that alternatives actually taste better. Which leads me to believe that either I have higher standards or I'm just a horrible cook.

No, believe me, you're not a terrible cook, you just have a sense of taste and you're not trying to delude yourself on that point. I've tried cooking with alternatives to see what tastes better [I don't care the source I only care the flavor] and I can assure you they're either bullshitting or they've just convinced themselves...or they just don't have very active taste-buds. Alternatives to eggs and dairy oftentimes taste bad. Silk soymilk isn't too bad...as long as it is the chocolate soymilk. But normal soymilk? BLECH.

[The Grand Nudger]

Let me just add here, that there is no reason to be ashamed of eating meat which you would not slaughter. That's simple division of labor. You flush your toilet daily but I doubt that you'd really want to wade through the shit to maintain that system. Do you like to order the salad? How's about you go work in the fields? One does not have to be willing to do something one's self to make use of the product or service that such labor affords "guilt-free". It doesn't work like that anywhere else, so why do people suggest that it works like that with livestock?

(and to those of you who feel that you wouldn't be able to kill an animal yourself - I mean this in the nicest, least insulting way possible - I'd bet the farm that you could. Misgivings about butchering animals are completely reasonable. We extend empathy, and if you take a look, the empathy we extend to our livestock increases as they approach us in similarity. This is entirely unremarkable.)

[Diamond]

Just a little heads up, Creed, the pushy veg*n preachers that you speak of are actually very small minority. Most likely, they have either just started on their diet or they've just always been pushy when it came to anything. If it's the former, let it go. They will stop. If it's the latter, they're just assholes (*coughcoughPETAcoughcough*). Still, you should

Stay calm

and

Eat whatever the fuck you want

[Erinome]

I'm not really fond of the vegan dairy/egg alternatives either, Diamond. I'm not a huge dairy person anyway, and eggs are a food I can live without. The thing that's going to kill me when I do go full on vegan is the cheese. Oh how I do love cheese. If something tastes yucky, cheese makes it all better.

[The Grand Nudger]

They're on edge man, coming down off their meat high, give em a little slack.

[Diamond]

Oh how I do love cheese. If something tastes yucky, cheese makes it all better.

You're telling me! But salt does wonders, too. As if that's any better.

[Erinome]

Is Velveeta even real cheese?

[Chuff]

Is veganism where you also wont wear clothes made from animals, or is that called something else(pardon my naivety)? That idea is purely a moral issue

I myself am carnivorous, I don't eat anything green. Probably not the diet my body is designed for so I try to fill in the veggie gap with lots of fruit.

[Diamond]

Is veganism where you also wont wear clothes made from animals, or is that called something else(pardon my naivety)? That idea is purely a moral issue

If it's for moral reasons, yes. I mean, if you're not gonna eat it, why wear it?