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My Defense of Christianity.
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He's hoping to get lucky and hit upon some real historical figure or event that we can't prove.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
I was amazed the other day when even Ehrman trotted out that stupid canard about Julius Caesar. He should know better.... but then, his PH. D. is in studying ancient near eastern texts so perhaps his Roman history is a tad weak.
How can theists equate Julius Caesar with Jesus when it comes to existence? Julius wrote down stuff AND issued coins with his face on it, two things that Jesus wasn't capable of. The latter is obviously an unfair comparison because of the position Julius was in, but the point is that his existence is undoubtedly proven.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" ~ Aristotle
 RE: My Defense of Christianity.
August 30, 2012 at 11:01 pm
(This post was last modified: August 30, 2012 at 11:19 pm by Jackalope.)
(August 30, 2012 at 10:22 pm)Minimalist Wrote:Quote:Can you prove Julius Caesar was assassinated? It's worth adding that, based on a quick fact-check, at least some of the above people lived during the time of and actually knew Julius Caesar, unlike those who wrote about Jesus. RE: My Defense of Christianity.
August 30, 2012 at 11:12 pm
(This post was last modified: August 30, 2012 at 11:12 pm by Cyberman.)
It's also worth adding that there were people who knew Julius Caesar personally and I'm sure that at least most of them wrote extensively on things he said and did. Then as FtR said, there's all the things written by the man himself, as well as events that were influenced by actions dependent on his very existence. Not to mention all the coins and statuary depicting him that still exist to this very day.
No part of the NT was written by anyone who claimed ever to have met the JC character in person and certainly wasn't written during his supposed lifetime. There are no documents by him or artworks inspired by him (until many years later) or any mention of the man, his works or anything about him outside of the NT.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
RE: My Defense of Christianity.
August 30, 2012 at 11:16 pm
(This post was last modified: August 30, 2012 at 11:32 pm by FallentoReason.)
It really is rather embarrasing that the supposed Creator of the universe wasn't ever in contact with someone mildly literate that could have scribbled "Jeezus wuz 'ere" on the nearest wall. And this is despite Jesus having hundreds following him at times, thousands converting because of him and entire villages supposedly being flabbergasted by his actions after he had come and gone.
Really? "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" ~ Aristotle
(August 30, 2012 at 10:58 pm)FallentoReason Wrote: How can theists equate Julius Caesar with Jesus when it comes to existence? Julius wrote down stuff AND issued coins with his face on it, two things that Jesus wasn't capable of. The latter is obviously an unfair comparison because of the position Julius was in, but the point is that his existence is undoubtedly proven. Not only that... but the nature of the claims aren't even similar. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. While some of the history of Julius Caesar may have been embellished, there are not claims of a supernatural nature - no claims of resurrection or other miracles or magic. I'll add, that if there were such claims, it seems likely that few today would believe them. What we know about Caesar is consistent with what we know about Rome. There is little reason to doubt that that historical accounts are substantially true. Yet, for Jesus, we have no contemporary accounts, very little outside of the NT (and the authenticity of some of those writings is in doubt), no artifacts, no records, nothing, nada, bupkis. We also have some very extraordinary claims of a supernatural / divine nature. We should expect more evidence to support belief in such claims, and we have much, much less. Comparing the two is ludicrous. RE: My Defense of Christianity.
August 30, 2012 at 11:30 pm
(This post was last modified: August 30, 2012 at 11:31 pm by Cyberman.)
You'd think at least one bloke would have said something, however insignificant. "Dear diary: I was hobbling down the street this morning, trying to cadge a few shekels for a cup of coffee, and you'll never guess who I bumped into coming round the corner! Only that Jesus bloke everyone's been talking about. Nice enough fella, hair's a bit long and he's shorter than he looks in his paintings, and he could really do with a bath, but ok I suppose if you like that sort of thing. Miserable git walked straight past pretending not to see me with my hand out, though."
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
But hey, nevermind the reality of the time because modern history books say he existed. That's enough for me. Praise Jeebus!
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" ~ Aristotle
(August 30, 2012 at 11:12 pm)Stimbo Wrote: It's also worth adding that there were people who knew Julius Caesar personally and I'm sure that at least most of them wrote extensively on things he said and did. Then as FtR said, there's all the things written by the man himself, as well as events that were influenced by actions dependent on his very existence. Not to mention all the coins and statuary depicting him that still exist to this very day. Indeed. Octavius, Cicero, Vergil, and Paterculus were contemporaries of Caesar's ( and Cicero was an enemy.) In addition, Titus Livius and Gaius Asinius Pollio were alive and writing at the time. While Pollio's work has not survived and the portion of Livy which dealt with the time in question is also no longer extant, Pollio was cited as the source by both Appian and Dio which means that they had an actual history written by a contemporary witness to the events.... something the jesus freaks would give their left testicle to possess! In my list I neglected to mention Josephus....who did discuss Caesar and his murder and the aftermath.... but for whom xtians had to forge references for their godboy! |
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