My debate in Christian Forums in full swing

[greneknight]

It's odd that you state God is a metaphor for goodness, but then don't believe in goodness (goodness is subjective).

I do believe in goodness. I believe in all the virtues such as goodness, truth and justice.

[Rayaan]

Oh, I get what you mean. No, God is a pure metaphor. A pure metaphor can never be a human being because a pure metaphor does not exist in reality.

So, why isn't Jesus also a pure metaphor if you believe that Jesus is God?

By this statement

The problem comes with most people because they have a DIFFERENT understanding of "God". So, when I say, "Jesus is God", they take Jesus to be an entity and God to be another real entity.

you seem to be implying that Jesus and God are one and the same entity (which entails that they cannot have different qualities).

[IATIA]

You are going to confuse greneknight. Hell, I am confused.

"I do not believe in god. I believe in jesus. jesus is god. god is a metaphor for goodness. I believe in goodness."

Is that about the gist of things?

[Brunitski]

Thanks, Hedrick. But I can say this. The greneknight of Atheist Forum is definitely a different person. I have read some of the postings and he doesn't sound like a Christian. He says a lot of the things that I have said in CF and other places so I think he knows me quite well and has a personal grudge against me. I don't think he is Drich or Godel although initially I thought they were the ones, seeing how insistent they are in claiming that I'm the chap. I think the greneknight in Atheist Forum is blasphemous. I don't believe the Christians in CF who hate me will descend to such a level, so this chap is obviously NOT a Christian. Some of the things he says I agree with (and that's obvious: he copies what I have said elsewhere) but many things he says I totally refute and deny.

Eh?
What's all this then?

[greneknight]

Oh, I get what you mean. No, God is a pure metaphor. A pure metaphor can never be a human being because a pure metaphor does not exist in reality.

So, why isn't Jesus also a pure metaphor if you believe that Jesus is God?

By this statement

The problem comes with most people because they have a DIFFERENT understanding of "God". So, when I say, "Jesus is God", they take Jesus to be an entity and God to be another real entity.

you seem to be implying that Jesus and God are one and the same entity (which entails that they cannot have different qualities).

You misunderstand me, Rayaan. Jesus was a human being. So he can't be a pure metaphor. Let's say I speak of George Washington as the paragon of honesty. When I say this boy is a George Washington, I'm using that President's name as a metaphor. But George Washington is not a pure metaphor because there was a chap by that name.

Christian tradition also has it that Jesus is God. So, Jesus can also be used as a metaphor for goodness if you follow the Christian tradition.

---

Thanks, Hedrick. But I can say this. The greneknight of Atheist Forum is definitely a different person. I have read some of the postings and he doesn't sound like a Christian. He says a lot of the things that I have said in CF and other places so I think he knows me quite well and has a personal grudge against me. I don't think he is Drich or Godel although initially I thought they were the ones, seeing how insistent they are in claiming that I'm the chap. I think the greneknight in Atheist Forum is blasphemous. I don't believe the Christians in CF who hate me will descend to such a level, so this chap is obviously NOT a Christian. Some of the things he says I agree with (and that's obvious: he copies what I have said elsewhere) but many things he says I totally refute and deny.

Eh?
What's all this then?

Can't you guess? Surely you don't want me to spell it out?

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

Can't you guess? Surely you don't want me to spell it out?

Of course not,as I said, you are a sly little bastard. I'm starting to like you.

[Brunitski]

So, why isn't Jesus also a pure metaphor if you believe that Jesus is God?

By this statement
you seem to be implying that Jesus and God are one and the same entity (which entails that they cannot have different qualities).

You misunderstand me, Rayaan. Jesus was a human being. So he can't be a pure metaphor. Let's say I speak of George Washington as the paragon of honesty. When I say this boy is a George Washington, I'm using that President's name as a metaphor. But George Washington is not a pure metaphor because there was a chap by that name.

Christian tradition also has it that Jesus is God. So, Jesus can also be used as a metaphor for goodness if you follow the Christian tradition.

---

Eh?
What's all this then?

Can't you guess? Surely you don't want me to spell it out?

Call me a dense cunt and spell it out.

[greneknight]

Can't you guess? Surely you don't want me to spell it out?

Of course not,as I said, you are a sly little bastard. I'm starting to like you.

You prefer me to that little twerp ("that other greneknight") in Christian Forums?

---

You misunderstand me, Rayaan. Jesus was a human being. So he can't be a pure metaphor. Let's say I speak of George Washington as the paragon of honesty. When I say this boy is a George Washington, I'm using that President's name as a metaphor. But George Washington is not a pure metaphor because there was a chap by that name.

Christian tradition also has it that Jesus is God. So, Jesus can also be used as a metaphor for goodness if you follow the Christian tradition.

---

Can't you guess? Surely you don't want me to spell it out?

Call me a dense cunt and spell it out.

No, don't be so hard on yourself. Padraic will happily call you guileless.

[Rayaan]

You misunderstand me, Rayaan. Jesus was a human being. So he can't be a pure metaphor. Let's say I speak of George Washington as the paragon of honesty. When I say this boy is a George Washington, I'm using that President's name as a metaphor. But George Washington is not a pure metaphor because there was a chap by that name.

Maybe I did misunderstand you, but it doesn't seem like it.

I'll put it in simple and clear words once again. Correct me if I said anything wrong.

Right now, in your comments above, you said that:
1. Jesus is a human being.
2. From 1, he cannot be a pure metaphor.

In other posts, you asserted that:
1. Jesus is God.
2. God is a pure metaphor.

So, that means that you believe that Jesus is both a human being and God, right?

If you say yes, then that means that God cannot be a pure metaphor because he was also a human being (i.e. Jesus). And human beings cannot be pure metaphor.

[greneknight]

You misunderstand me, Rayaan. Jesus was a human being. So he can't be a pure metaphor. Let's say I speak of George Washington as the paragon of honesty. When I say this boy is a George Washington, I'm using that President's name as a metaphor. But George Washington is not a pure metaphor because there was a chap by that name.

Maybe I did misunderstand you, but it doesn't seem like it.

I'll put it in simple and clear words once again. Correct me if I said anything wrong.

Right now, in your comments above, you said that:
1. Jesus is a human being.
2. From 1, he cannot be a pure metaphor.

In other posts, you asserted that:
1. Jesus is God.
2. God is a pure metaphor.

So, that means that you believe that Jesus is both a human being and God, right?

If you say yes, then that means that God cannot be a pure metaphor because he was also a human being (i.e. Jesus). And human beings cannot be pure metaphor.

Rayaan, I know what the problem is. The word "God" is confusing because it means so much to people of faith like yourself. Let's try it differently. We'll substitute T (metaphor for truth) for God.

1. Jesus is human.
2. A human is not a pure metaphor.

1. Jesus is (in Western culture) referred to as T (the metaphor for truth).
2. T is a pure metaphor.

In my understanding, that which is a pure metaphor can't be a person because pure metaphors don't exist. So T can't be a human. Do you think Truth can be a human? Of course not. Truth doesn't exist as an entity. We agree here, right?

But a human can be T. We can call George Washington TRUTH. "Look, Dad! TRUTH has just entered the shop". Let's say there is a culture where Washington is known as TRUTH, that would be perfectly comprehensible.

Same thing with Christianity. The culture has it that Jesus is God. But God is a pure metaphor and it doesn't exist as an entity.

If you think of God as TRUTH, it will be easily understood.

I hope I'm being clear here.