Athiesm is a Faith?

[LastPoet]

Well then, make me believe. Give me evidence for your god that satisfies the burden of proof for the concept you are presenting. To most of us atheists, it remains as just a myth, an abused legend, like santa, etc. Give me a reason, and don't hide in holy hideness.

[Mark 13:13]

Well then, make me believe. Give me evidence for your god that satisfies the burden of proof for the concept you are presenting. To most of us atheists, it remains as just a myth, an abused legend, like santa, etc. Give me a reason, and don't hide in holy hideness.

I have been very clear about this proof question upto now, I have admitted and accepted that I can provide NO proof. And given the length of the discussion over eons of time it would be incredably improbable that I would come up with a new one you haven't come across before. I have made it clear that I see no more burden of proof in me Saying I believe in God or you saying you don't. But likewise for all the bluster and fancy word play. No one on this forum can provide any Proof that God does not exist. We both know the proof question is a dead end. I would suggest that people make the decision to change from belief or not on much more mundane and subjective experiences , behaviour patterns and thinking patterns and then look for proofs to justify their intuited position on the matter.

I have also made it clear that God / no God are both concepts of creation as lets be real NO Human alive knows with absolute certainty. Anyone who says so is a liar to themselves or to everyone else. So I can understand why you keep up this burden of proof crap is mine in order to keep trying to get me into wasting my time on an imposability and to weasel your way out of wasting your time trying to prove God does not exist.

I would like to hear from someone who came to the decision to believe or not believe because someone proved it to them before they had already began to make the switch in a much more subjective way before the PROOF. And see if this wonderful proof moves me or any other firm non atheist in the forum.

I respect your views and experiences and can understand why you can hold them but I cannot respect the continual refusal to accept that i wont be drawn into a proverbial barrel just to provide amusement for people to take gratuitous pot shots at.

Now I know that i'm not always the best at making my view clear so I would ask you to use your keen intellects and if my words aren't clear, resist the urge to try and put words in my mouth, and try and intuit what i'm trying to say. I'm confident if you do you will get it.

[Cyberman]

I have been very clear about this proof question upto now, I have admitted and accepted that I can provide NO proof. And given the length of the discussion over eons of time it would be incredably improbable that I would come up with a new one you haven't come across before. I have made it clear that I see no more burden of proof in me Saying I believe in God or you saying you don't. But likewise for all the bluster and fancy word play. No one on this forum can provide any Proof that God does not exist. We both know the proof question is a dead end.

Here's why this is totally wrong, in cartoon form:





I know I and others have put this up before, but if this isn't the perfect time and place then there isn't one.

[FallentoReason]

No one on this forum can provide any Proof that God does not exist.

What we can do is prove why the Christian god does not exist, or any other god thought up by man since the dawn of civilization.

[Mark 13:13]

I have been very clear about this proof question upto now, I have admitted and accepted that I can provide NO proof. And given the length of the discussion over eons of time it would be incredably improbable that I would come up with a new one you haven't come across before. I have made it clear that I see no more burden of proof in me Saying I believe in God or you saying you don't. But likewise for all the bluster and fancy word play. No one on this forum can provide any Proof that God does not exist. We both know the proof question is a dead end.

Here's why this is totally wrong, in cartoon form:





I know I and others have put this up before, but if this isn't the perfect time and place then there isn't one.

Yes its perfect timing, and I accept the many points made but I hold my position that because the God I believe in can never be proved or disproved by science EVER because He does not exist anywhere science can search or even have the tools to search. It cannot be proved or disproved. God is not like any other phenomenon that science can explore and the acceptance of a belief or not in God does not in itself hamper science from progression or making definative statements about what it is equiped to deal with. I do not try to shift the burden of proof rather i contend that in this situation there is no burden of proof on either party unless one party sets out to prove to the other that are wrong. I do not set out to prove you are wrong so no burden accepted.

[Tea Earl Grey Hot]

...
Yes its perfect timing, and I accept the many points made but I hold my position that because the God I believe in can never be proved or disproved by science EVER because He does not exist anywhere science can search or even have the tools to search. It cannot be proved or disproved. God is not like any other phenomenon that science can explore and the acceptance of a belief or not in God does not in itself hamper science from progression or making definative statements about what it is equiped to deal with. I do not try to shift the burden of proof rather i contend that in this situation there is no burden of proof on either party unless one party sets out to prove to the other that are wrong. I do not set out to prove you are wrong so no burden accepted.

Then why believe?

[Mark 13:13]

...
Yes its perfect timing, and I accept the many points made but I hold my position that because the God I believe in can never be proved or disproved by science EVER because He does not exist anywhere science can search or even have the tools to search. It cannot be proved or disproved. God is not like any other phenomenon that science can explore and the acceptance of a belief or not in God does not in itself hamper science from progression or making definative statements about what it is equiped to deal with. I do not try to shift the burden of proof rather i contend that in this situation there is no burden of proof on either party unless one party sets out to prove to the other that are wrong. I do not set out to prove you are wrong so no burden accepted.

Then why believe?

because i get some intangeble benefit from the belief and because I have experieced something of the supernatural but it doesn't quite go to miracles and can be easily brushed of as just coincidence by people who weren't in my space experiencing what i experience. But I will never have 100% certainty so there is always room for doubt but if i'm honest even if I was to have some wierd paradigm and turn into an Athiest ( extremely unlikely as it would have happened in the 20 or so years I was very much a non practicing Catholic and definately using my free will to challenge church teaching. I even told the priest that was to marry me and my wife in the premarriage prep sesions that I disagreed with the church position on contraception, and my wife that I didn't care what the church taught on divorce if the marriage went completely pear shaped then divorce was an option for me.) I would always have a doubt, its part of my make up to leave just a space even if this space can be uncomfortable to carry.

[Zen Badger]

Yes its perfect timing, and I accept the many points made but I hold my position that because the God I believe in can never be proved or disproved by science EVER because He does not exist anywhere science can search or even have the tools to search. It cannot be proved or disproved. God is not like any other phenomenon that science can explore and the acceptance of a belief or not in God does not in itself hamper science from progression or making definative statements about what it is equiped to deal with. I do not try to shift the burden of proof rather i contend that in this situation there is no burden of proof on either party unless one party sets out to prove to the other that are wrong. I do not set out to prove you are wrong so no burden accepted.

Actually it is very easy to disprove your god because the only evidence you have for him is the bible. Because that has repeatedly been proven NOT to be the inspired word of god but merely the superstitious scribblings of a bunch of unwashed goat herders that didn't know that bats were mammals, not birds.

[Cyberman]

Yes its perfect timing, and I accept the many points made but I hold my position that because the God I believe in can never be proved or disproved by science EVER because He does not exist anywhere science can search or even have the tools to search. It cannot be proved or disproved. God is not like any other phenomenon that science can explore and the acceptance of a belief or not in God does not in itself hamper science from progression or making definative statements about what it is equiped to deal with.

This was all covered in the video. To accept that not only is there no evidence to support a belief but there cannot ever be such, yet to carry on believing it anyway, is practically the very definition of 'irrational'. Remember when I said that I'm not an atheist merely to be contrary, and that I am willing to consider whatever evidence might be presented? That's how this game is played. I am willing to consider that I may be wrong; how about you?

I do not try to shift the burden of proof rather i contend that in this situation there is no burden of proof on either party unless one party sets out to prove to the other that are wrong.

Yet burden shifting is precisely what you were doing when you said "No one on this forum can provide any Proof that God does not exist." We don't have to. It's up to the party proposing something additional to the system - say, some sort of god - to provide evidentiary support. That you cannot do so is hardly my concern. As a wise man (probably Elvis or someone) once said: "Put up or shut up".

I do not set out to prove you are wrong so no burden accepted.

Whether you accept it or not, it is yours. The only rational way to remove the burden is to abandon your claims. Can you do that?

[Whateverist]

No one on this forum can provide any Proof that God does not exist.

What we can do is prove why the Christian god does not exist, or any other god thought up by man since the dawn of civilization.

We can? Hot damn, I've been wondering if that would ever prove possible. Go ahead. Whatcha got?