Reasons for God

[Violet]

Im motivated to keep helping because I can feel my impact, and others appreciate it. If I feel I don't have any impact... I have no reason to keep helping. I help because people appreciate it... not because I want to help, or because I inherently care... although those are also reasons that I help.

I can't speak for everyone else here... but thats my motivation: People appreciate help. I'm appallingly rejected at my school... but I carry myself through faith in myself... and being appreciated by at least a few people.

Nothing makes me happier than for someone to announce in public chat that: 'The troll shammy healer is fucking awesome' That's why Jesus didn't live a quiet life: he wanted people to appreciate him... and he had the faith in himself that he would be able to do some good for humanity.

[Edwardo Piet]

Your question is how faith in something that is far greater than yourself or God results in greater humility or selflessness? Is that not self-evident?

No it is not self evident. Because you have not shown 1. That this cannot be done without faith. 2. That if it is done through faith, that if this is anything more than the belief giving inspiration to the specific individual because he believes it does/will...irrespective of whether God actually exists or not, whether there's actually truth in the belief or not.

EvF

[Retorth]

It is possible to give until it hurts, and then to keep on giving. Without faith it wouldn't make any sense - people never go there on purpose without faith. Maybe you should try it - I feel certain that you never have.

I think I see what you mean. To give and give and give but never feel appreciated, correct? You are so very correct that I have never experienced that. I actually think and consider and not give "give" blindly. Allow me to explain.

This is where you stop. You care for people, for those around you, but if they do not appreciate it, you do not go ALL the way out of your own way just to help them. You can still help but you should draw a line as to how far you will go for this person in question. It's nobody else's fault if you just give and give and give blindly without thinking, you know.

Desiring God to exist and believing is an essential part of breaking the boundaries of the "ebb and flow" - allowing true good deeds. Anything less is labeled as "filthy rags" in the Bible (meaning lesser "good" deeds).

Wait, now you are talking about doing good deeds. Basically, you're now saying that the desire for god to exist and believing he does is essential for allowing "true deeds". I am simply saying that desiring for him to be real does not making him real. It does not make him any more real then if I desire so badly for pink unicorns to be real, even if I believe so very strongly that they exist. What basis do you have apart from faith to ensure that he is in fact real?

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

I think I see what you mean. To give and give and give but never feel appreciated, correct? You are so very correct that I have never experienced that. I actually think and consider and not give "give" blindly. Smile Allow me to explain.

To give to feel appreciated, for reward (such as heaven) or to avoid pain (such as hell) is self interest. I'm not saying this is necessarily wrong*. I AM saying it's the antithesis of altruism. I get fed up with self righteous theists claiming a non existent moral high ground.


*Imo self interest becomes immoral if I meet my desires by harming others. (I do not conflate 'desires' with 'needs')

[Violet]

Must one give for only one reason though? Can one not give to feel appreciated, to get a reward, and to avoid pain all at once? 'Course one can... one can even give for all of those reasons, and also give because of the goodness of one's heart. Perhaps there is nothing we do that is completely selfless... for we humans are strategists and planners, and try to do what we feel is the best thing to do in any given situation

But why would you give help to someone who does not need or want help? If your helping will have little to no impact: then it was not needed in the first place. Appreciation comes from other's response to your impact... and is a very good motivator to continue to make an impact.

When you only need 1 healer for the boss... it is silly to bring along 3. If you are having no impact: you are not helping. So you can't give help to anyone without having an impact, which rarely fails to be appreciated. Impact is probably a prerequisite to appreciation... I'll have to think more on that before I will conclude it.

[ecolox]

Your question is how faith in something that is far greater than yourself or God results in greater humility or selflessness? Is that not self-evident?

No it is not self evident.

It is.

Because you have not shown 1. That this cannot be done without faith.

Now you're straying from the original question and responding to a different one.

Also, by ruling out faith you have excluded almost everything, if not everything (beyond one's own mind).

2. That if it is done through faith, that if this is anything more than the belief giving inspiration to the specific individual because he believes it does/will...irrespective of whether God actually exists or not, whether there's actually truth in the belief or not.

I think its really something that belief in God produces the best results in the world.

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I think I see what you mean. To give and give and give but never feel appreciated, correct? You are so very correct that I have never experienced that. I actually think and consider and not give "give" blindly. Allow me to explain.

I thought I was correct. You give on earth with the requirement of earthly repayment. If you aren't being encouraged to give, then you will not. This is the "ebb and flow" that you are limited to...

This is where you stop. You care for people, for those around you, but if they do not appreciate it, you do not go ALL the way out of your own way just to help them. You can still help but you should draw a line as to how far you will go for this person in question. It's nobody else's fault if you just give and give and give blindly without thinking, you know.

To the contrary, I am not a proponent of thoughtless giving. E.g. I do not give and give and give drugs, food, and alcohol to drug addicts, gluttons, and alcoholics respectively. I may even give something that people don't want. E.g. If you ask for a loaf of bread I may hand you a stone. (Later enabling you to grind grain and make bread).

Wait, now you are talking about doing good deeds. Basically, you're now saying that the desire for god to exist and believing he does is essential for allowing "true deeds". I am simply saying that desiring for him to be real does not making him real. It does not make him any more real then if I desire so badly for pink unicorns to be real, even if I believe so very strongly that they exist. What basis do you have apart from faith to ensure that he is in fact real?

Faith in God (colorless, formless) produces real world results and gives meaning to life.

Your faith in pink unicorns seems to be an inconsequential belief.

---

I think I see what you mean. To give and give and give but never feel appreciated, correct? You are so very correct that I have never experienced that. I actually think and consider and not give "give" blindly. Smile Allow me to explain.

To give to feel appreciated, for reward (such as heaven) or to avoid pain (such as hell) is self interest. I'm not saying this is necessarily wrong*. I AM saying it's the antithesis of altruism. I get fed up with self righteous theists claiming a non existent moral high ground.


*Imo self interest becomes immoral if I meet my desires by harming others. (I do not conflate 'desires' with 'needs')

Your "good deeds" are paid for on earth. In regards to believers, payment is deferred to God, thus the people on earth take all the benefits of the believer's deeds at no cost. Obviously, this is much more beneficial to the world.

[Violet]

Faith in God (colorless, formless) produces real world results and gives meaning to life.

Your faith in pink unicorns seems to be an inconsequential belief.

I see your faith in god(s?) no more worthy than some people's faith in pink unicorns.

I prefer to place my faith in people like myself, and my close friends, and those who perform the job they have trained to do well That is the kind of faith that gets things done... faith in imaginary beings getting things done does nothing... literally.

[fr0d0]

How wrong can you be C... probably no more wrong than anyone completely ignorant of a subject I suppose...

[Violet]

??? I once again do not see how you mean, fr0d0...?

[fr0d0]

Oh for goodness sake C!!! You know fuck all about Christianity yet criticise like you do. Howz that??