Colorado parents of transgender 1st-grader file complaint over restroom ban

[Tea Earl Grey Hot]

@Aractus

So we're not allowed to disagree with the school's decision?

[Mystical]

I know a quite a few trans women who are lesbian, and only a few who are strictly straight. The great majority of us fall somewhere into the bisexual label. Educated guess, I think our pesonal experiences causes us to view gender differently and see it as more fluid.

According to the APA: we're all fluid.

Mind = Blown

AMERICAN PSYCHOLOGICAL ASSOCIATION
What is sexual orientation?
Sexual orientation refers to an enduring pattern of emotional, romantic, and/or sexual attractions to men, women, or both sexes. Sexual orientation also refers to a person’s sense of identity based on those attractions, related behaviors, and membership in a community of others who share those attractions. Research over several decades has demonstrated that sexual orientation ranges along a continuum, from exclusive attraction to the other sex to exclusive attraction to the same sex. However, sexual orientation is usually discussed in terms of three categories: heterosexual (having emotional, romantic, or sexual attractions to members of the other sex), gay/lesbian (having emotional, romantic, or sexual attractions to members of one’s own sex), and bisexual (having emotional, romantic, or sexual attractions to both men and women).
http://www.apa.org/helpcenter/sexual-orientation.aspx

[Aractus]

Not to mention: guys' bathrooms are on a whole different playing field cleanliness wise.

Actually that's totally wrong. I know of buildings which have signs inside the ladies that say "wash your hands before leaving" and which do not have those signs inside the men's.

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@Aractus

So we're not allowed to disagree with the school's decision?

Nonsense. You can disagree with it all you want, but it's still their decision to make.

[Mystical]

Not to mention: guys' bathrooms are on a whole different playing field cleanliness wise.

Actually that's totally wrong. I know of buildings which have signs inside the ladies that say "wash your hands before leaving" and which do not have those signs inside the men's.

Ummmm... I was saying you guys' bathrooms are disgusting
Follow up question: How do you know what's in the girl's bathrooms?

[Shell B]

Construct an argument next time then rather than leaving us to infer.

You are the only one who constructed a make believe argument out of a conclusion. There is no "us" inferring. You made up an argument in your head that was fallacious and then called me out for said fallacious argument. You then blamed me for not giving you an argument, but rather a statement. Is there a fucking rule that I have to give you premises and a conclusion for every statement of opinion that I make?

This is more like it. I'm not going to argue with you on that.

Given that it is the first argument I have made on the subject, I would say we don't have much of a debate.

If it's not about rape or assault, then what's the problem with penises? Is this just some irrational fear of yours of penises in the ladies room?

Do try not to infer. I'm not afraid of penises. I woud prefer that they not be that close to my nieces when they are using a public restroom, unless it belongs to their father who couldn't figure out which bathroom to take her into and are nervously waiting for her to finish. You can see through cracks in stalls. If you want little girls to see penises . . . oh wait, that is unfairly inferring something from your statements, isn't it?

No, I just can't see any possible reason why somebody would fear penises in the women's restroom if it wasn't for fear of rape or assault. It just doesn't make any sense whatsoever to me at all.

Who said I was afraid? I said I would rather not have it happen. What I said I was even remotely iffy about was making it so men and women walking into the same restroom was so normal that no one thought to think twice when a man followed a woman into a bathroom or a little girl for that matter and it goes both ways.

What "harm" is this exactly?

Do you not find it harmful for a young girl to see a penis? Well, I would rather she did not. I would rather she not see vaginas that do not belong to her, either. However, that would hardly raise the question of genitalia. Children have no reason to be concerned with this. Now, you have yet to assert your views on this. I will go no further until I am sure I am not just wasting my time debating someone who does not disagree, but rather enjoys wasting people's time by making them state every nuance of their argument for no one's benefit. It's rude. So, where do you stand or have nice day? Up to you.

Missluckie, I have heard tell that women's bathrooms are worse. I imagine it is the bloody mess thing.

[Mystical]

Missluckie, I have heard tell that women's bathrooms are worse. I imagine it is the bloody mess thing.

Nah, the guys bathrooms are gross. I cleaned a few in my teenage years. It's the, pee on the floor for no reason then somehow get everything in there sticky with it, thing.

[Shell B]

I'm sure they are both gross. Bathrooms are just nasty because people in general are nasty.

[TaraJo]

I'm sure they are both gross. Bathrooms are just nasty because people in general are nasty.

Public restrooms are rooms where people go to deficate and urinate; we can't expect those places to smell especially nice after that, can we? The only places with restrooms that aren't gross are the ones that are either rarely used or the ones where they're being cleaned constantly.

[Shell B]

I'm not talking about the smell.

[Tea Earl Grey Hot]

Construct an argument next time then rather than leaving us to infer.

You are the only one who constructed a make believe argument out of a conclusion. There is no "us" inferring. You made up an argument in your head that was fallacious and then called me out for said fallacious argument. You then blamed me for not giving you an argument, but rather a statement. Is there a fucking rule that I have to give you premises and a conclusion for every statement of opinion that I make?

It seems rather pointless in a debate to share only your opinions and not what led you to your opinions. If you're trying to convince somebody of your view, you'll never be successful by stating only what you believe. You need to back that belief up with arguments.

I assumed your question to TaraJo was your argument with an implied conclusion because it never occurred to me that one would only share just their opinion (ie your "conclusion") in a discussion such as this because doing such is entirely unproductive.

If it's not about rape or assault, then what's the problem with penises? Is this just some irrational fear of yours of penises in the ladies room?

Do try not to infer. I'm not afraid of penises. I woud prefer that they not be that close to my nieces when they are using a public restroom, unless it belongs to their father who couldn't figure out which bathroom to take her into and are nervously waiting for her to finish. You can see through cracks in stalls. If you want little girls to see penises . . . oh wait, that is unfairly inferring something from your statements, isn't it?

"Prefer." But why prefer that they not be close?

And I'm talking about the specifically penises of transgendered by the way. I didn't mean to include heterosexual males.

And I don't care about your hypothethical inference because it'd be just an ad homonim attack to distract from your lack of an argument.

No, I just can't see any possible reason why somebody would fear penises in the women's restroom if it wasn't for fear of rape or assault. It just doesn't make any sense whatsoever to me at all.

Who said I was afraid? I said I would rather not have it happen. What I said I was even remotely iffy about was making it so men and women walking into the same restroom was so normal that no one thought to think twice when a man followed a woman into a bathroom or a little girl for that matter and it goes both ways.

I'm having a hard time understanding your third sentence. I thinking it's missing a word or two.

[quote]
What "harm" is this exactly?

Do you not find it harmful for a young girl to see a penis? Well, I would rather she did not. I would rather she not see vaginas that do not belong to her, either. However, that would hardly raise the question of genitalia. Children have no reason to be concerned with this.

I don't remember the issue being "seeing" a penis (I'll double check that in a minute. I'm on mobile and I'll lose what I wrote if I open a new tab.) The issue I thought in this discussion was the penis being in the restroom.

And what circumstance might you see a penis in a women's restroom? There are no urinals. Even in men's restrooms, I've only seen somebody else's penis maybe at most three times and that was just an acidental glimpse at the urinal.

And I can't see what harm seeing a penis is anyway if it's not in a sexual context. What makes you think so?

Now, you have yet to assert your views on this. I will go no further until I am sure I am not just wasting my time debating someone who does not disagree, but rather enjoys wasting people's time by making them state every nuance of their argument for no one's benefit. It's rude. So, where do you stand or have nice day? Up to you.

I have actually and I do disagree. Maybe you missed it. I can't see any reason to not let her use the women's restroom.

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Hardly matters. They have penises. Penises do not belong in ladies rooms. You can see slightly through the cracks in doors. It's not all about rape or assault, nor have I even slightly made it such.

Ok so you did mention seeing. You'd have to purposely press your face against the crack to look through the crack to see a penis. That seems unlikely for somebody to do.